The Data Driven Real Estate Podcast #8 – Real Estate Marketing Funnels with Erik Bee

By August 16, 2020Data, Podcast, PropertyRadar
Data Driven Real Estate with Erik Bee

Erik Bee is a multi-skilled business starter, real estate educator, and funnel marketing expert. Erik’s gone from motorcycle riding appraiser to Fortune Builder mastermind to the brains behind Real Estate Funnel Systems. He now spends his days focused on the data science driving marketing funnels and leads for some of the industry’s biggest real estate companies. From SMS marketing to SEO to direct mail, the marketing game is definitely a pros game.

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Show Topics

  • 00:00 The Data Driven Podcast Welcome Erik Bee of Real Estate Funnel Systems
  • 01:48 How did Erik Bee go from a motorcycle racing appraiser to real estate funnel marketing expert?
  • 05:17 How the appraisal game changed drastically during the Great Recession and how it changed his career
  • 09:10 With no money, how Erik started with trustee sale auctions and why someone financially back him
  • 14:45 Than Merrill, Fortune Builders, and making connections at the local real estate investment association (REIAs)
  • 15:51 The guru real estate educators and who is to blame for people not succeeding in real estate investing
  • 20:19 Learning from Than Merrill, CT Homes and running marketing in San Diego
  • 22:33 Why equity deals were so difficult to land in the Great Recession
  • 26:40 Why do people outsource marketing funnels?
  • 29:42 Does a marketing consultant use the same tools and strategies with all clients?
  • 35:36 What is a real estate sales funnel?
  • 37:20 Is there a target conversion ratio for marketing?
  • 37:27 The power of SMS marketing and the importance of compliance
  • 39:04 Examples of SMS failure and not staying compliant
  • 39:54 How your marketing can get you blacklisted from the Internet services providers
  • 41:52 How cold email campaigns can destroy SEO on top of getting your domain blacklisted
  • 42:53 Why SMS marketing is currently Erik’s top strategy and the data-driven results Erik is chasing
  • 43:58 Other integrated marketing strategies employed to create holistic real estate funnels that drive conversions
  • 45:01 What is RVM for marketers?
  • 45:06 Current issues with ringless voicemail messaging that marketers need to know
  • 45:48 Is direct mail still an important channel for real estate investors in 2020?
  • 46:13 The number one reason Real Estate Funnels Systems starts with text message marketing, then Facebook lookalike advertising, and ends with direct mail
  • 47:22 Is real estate marketing funnels people-centric or market-centric?
  • 48:58 How important is it for a real estate professional to have a strong online presence?
  • 49:51 The number one social media channel that real estate professionals should focus on
  • 52:20 Why some real estate investors don’t put websites on bandit signs
  • 52:42 Some side benefits of setting up a professional online presence that some people miss
  • 53:16 The big risk of only focusing marketing resources on social media channels
  • 53:49 How effective is social media advertising in 2020 for real estate professionals?
  • 55:09 Why YouTube is changing the game for marketers
  • 57:01 The shocking number of YouTube views tied directly to its algorithms
  • 58:43 The metrics behind SEM paid ads for real estate professionals.
  • 59:15 Aaron’s embarrassing story of paying $1,000 per click for paid ads that never converted
  • 1:03:22 How leading service in mind keeps real estate pros focused on trends and landing more deals

Show Transcript

Aaron Norris [00:00:02]  Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Data Driven Real Estate Podcast. The podcast for real estate professionals dedicated to driving business success through data. My name is Aaron Norris. And with us today, we have Eric Bee. Eric Bee is going to share with you some insights on how he went from an appraiser to real estate investor and eventually a consultant. But he’s got a two-year, hilarious journey before he finally pulled the trigger that only a true data geek would appreciate. We also talk about the importance of funnels. What is it? And his role as a consultant driving leads down funnel strategies that work, strategies that are changing because of Covid-19. And we also talk about marketing through the framework of the PESO model paid, earned, shared, and own the importance of each of those channels to drive authority, looking at the data that matters most. You won’t want to miss this week. Let’s get started. Hey, Eric. Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. I, worked on this list of questions. That is, by the way, in our portal. It’s where I sort of in our community, what I do is I sort of build the line of questioning that I think I’m going to ask. Doesn’t mean I’m always going to get to all of these. And I have a feeling you and I are going to get to all of them today. But I really appreciate you taking the time. I would love to start with your journey, how you got into real estate. You became a marketing expert. After high school, where did you go?

Erik Bee [00:01:20] Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, I appreciate it. And I’m deeply honored to it to be here with you. I have been I’ve been following, you know, you and your father for a long time, and it’s cool. It was a fun, fun way to connect. So thank you for having me here and I really appreciate it. Man, my journey like crash. You know, it’s been, it’s been a lifetime for me. And honestly, you know, you always kind of get that question how long you’ve been in real estate. Right. And for me, the honest answer has been my whole life. I was born and raised in a family. My dad’s a real estate appraiser. He’s still appraising in his twilight years. Out. Wow. Yeah. You know, he’s still doing it. And but so, like, my first job was and I’m sure you have similar stories, but it’s like my first job was painting the rental house, you know, like in doing the mowing the lawn over there and taking care of this. And because that’s it was a family business. Right. You know, just. And not on a grand scale of anything, but that’s what our family did. My dad was an appraiser. My mom, you know, stay at home. And number one mom and, and landlord. Right. So we’re always doing that. You know, that was the business. And so that’s how I grew up. And so right out of it, it was a lot. My dad’s a lifestyle guy. And so I grew up in a very active family. So I was competing in a lot of different things. My dad’s a motorcycle racer, skier. And so we know we were doing, you know, very, very active family. And so that’s just the environment that I grew up in. And so I was had my sport and I was competing at high levels and through, you know, 18, 19 things start getting serious, you know, and if whatever you’re doing, you know, if you’re passionate about what you’re doing, it’s starting to get the talent is showing up. But that was ages. And so for me, it was motorcycle racing. And I was traveling all over and doing that. And it might get with my dad, you know, and so we were just, you know, doing this together. And so right out of high school, I got into appraising, went right into the family business and got my appraisal license and just went with the lifestyle, with my, you know, I could immediately, I knew recognized that the door of real estate was in front of me and that, you know, I had the opportunity to learn it and to get to know it and that my dad is my best friend and I really respected the way he did his gig. And so I just really connected with that. And so I did that and it allowed my opportunity to make grown-up type money. Right. At a young age. Right. And had the flexibility of my time. So I was traveling all over and I was appraising and I could come back and I could disappear and I could come back and disappear and I bought a house at a young age, you know. So I was just like doing, you know, more grown-up activities when my friends were in college and partying a lot and, you know, and doing a lot of different things, I was always kind of on this, like, professional track, although it was also mixed in my lifestyle. So that’s the answer. I was really just passionate about my my my lifestyle in real estate was the answer there.

Aaron Norris [00:04:49] It was the gateway to the means to do all the fun stuff early on.

Erik Bee [00:04:55] Absolutely. And so that led to like six years of appraising full time, you know, from 2000 to 2006. That’s all I did was a praiseful time with my dad. So two to three appraisals a day.

Aaron Norris [00:05:07] Oh. And then ’06. So clearly.

Erik Bee [00:05:10] Right, there it is.

Aaron Norris [00:05:13] Into the Great Recession. All right. Walk us through it.

Erik Bee [00:05:17] Yeah. You know, what a great learning lesson. So as an appraiser. Front row seat. Holy cow. Right. You know, looking in hindsight, man, like all of the signs and everything, I was like I said, it affected the family business in every way, affected business relationships in every way. It was like I get goose bumps when I tell the story because it well, the ripple effect in the scars. You know, like, yeah, it’s crazy. So, you know, of course, we survived. My dad did everything else, but this was I mean, Zillow, the automated valuations were getting more prevalent, you know, and then more accurate. And all of a sudden, you know, like, holy cow, I remember dinner table conversations, is appraising still going to be around? You know, Zillow is a Seattle company. So I’m born and raised in Seattle and. And, you know, so, like, Zillow was always on the forefront of us as appraisers. And the appraisers are an older community. And I’m the youngest appraiser by 20 years in any class, in anything and anything I did was always 20-year, minimum, younger. And so it’s just kind of watching all this stuff. And I always knew, like, you know what? We got to hedge our bets with real estate game. And my dad was like, man, just I know you and your personality. You gotta get your broker’s license, start looking at different angles within real estate to start playing, you know, buying real estate. Just look at it from different angles because who knows what’s happening right now with the liar loans and this than that and the, you know, the bubble of the way it was coming down and the leverage to the appraisers that, you know, that were inflating the ah, the refies. And, you know, like I remember those being on my desk in, like, the ethical battle of like, you either are going to get this value or you’re not going to get the job. You want more jobs in the future? You’re going to get these values. You get it. That stuff was around all over the place and it was like, holy cow. And then the appraisal management cut the fees and all this stuff and so like. Yeah. So I had to get diverse in real estate. So I got my broker’s license and I had my appraiser license for five years. And so I got to skip right to the broker status.

Aaron Norris [00:07:36] Oh, OK.

Erik Bee [00:07:37] You know. Right. Because there’s that you’re exempt, you know, after you have five years of appraisal, licensing and everything else. So. So I got to get my broker’s license right away. And so I was doing traditional real estate appraising, you know, and then buy, fix and sell, you know, like, oh, OK. Now, like, remember, I was just listening to Sean O’Toole and his enter in with ForeclosureRadar. I remember when ForeclosureRadar became a thing. And I remember being like, holy cow. Like that changed the game. Like for the people that were, if you remember before, you know what a market was as far as just access to data, consistent data, things were that were accurate. You could. I used to during this time, I was so curious. I remember the aha moment when I realized that people bought real estate at below market value. Like wait a minute. So most people, everybody buying at market value, that sets market value. But then there’s some people that buy below market. How much? Oh, hundreds of thousands below. Sometimes, like, I remember that just being like, holy cow, there’s a whole underworld of real estate. And I always looked at this lens of retail value and I was … I’m the appraiser. We you know, all these things. Right. And so I just remember when I just that game just kind of clicked for me and I was like, whoa, OK, I got to study this. I got to know this. And so I didn’t have money. I didn’t understand hard money. I didn’t understand the game for really what it was at this moment. But I started going to the foreclosure auctions and just studying. And just in my wife and I, we were crazy this way. We went to every foreclosure auction for like two years every Friday and just showed up in and just it was turned into networking. Right. You know who’s there. OK. OK. What’s he buy. Okay.

Aaron Norris [00:09:40] Bring your snacks.

Erik Bee [00:09:42] Who’s talking crap on who. Ok wow. This though that’s how these two play against the. Oh I started seeing the game for what it was.

Aaron Norris [00:09:50] Two years?

Erik Bee [00:09:51] What’s that? Two years I, I went every Friday in my local market for two years in, but I every time I did I picked five houses that I would hypothetically buy. And so I would appraise them prior. So like through the week I would pick five houses. Then I’d go drive them because I’m out in the field doing appraising anyway. So I’d just be like, OK, then I would nail down my opinion of value of it. So then when I go to Friday, it would be like I would have my files and it was as if I was buying. I would like mach play, kind of, you know. And then I would see what they would actually sell for. So I would get the perspective of like, OK, this is what the value is. Here is the comps. This is what it is. This is what it sold for.

Aaron Norris [00:10:32] Wow, what a great idea.

Erik Bee [00:10:33] Oh, just start watching it like, you know, like, OK. So then I started trying to figure out the math. OK, so they makin’ how much. OK. And then, in the end, I was doing this kind of obsessively, if you will, in that moment where I just built files. I treated it like an appraisal. It was just the same process. So I had a little file and I had a file cabinet in. My dad’s friend came over, you know, in the appraisal office. And at one point, like, what is that? And I’m like, oh, this is what I do. I go on Friday. I tell him my super… you know what I do? And he’s like, Man, I can’t believe you do this. Like, when are you going to finally buy one? And I’m like, I don’t have money, you know? I don’t know. I don’t like… Still learning. Right. Still connecting. Right. Just like I. I don’t know. You know, and it’s like, well man, you can do it this way, this way or this way. And he started talking about Lending. Well, I could lend you money, right. Oh, private money. Oh well, I have this line of equity that I know that I have five percent not shoot. I’ll lend it to you at 10%. And oh, holy cow. So then, this dots started connecting and they started showing up to the auction with a loaded gun. Right. Kind of with a check and then. But I never bought one. I came really close because I learned that that’s the riskiest place to buy.

Aaron Norris [00:12:06] Yes. It’s we’ve covered that a few times on the show. At the trustee sales, particularly in states like, I don’t know the other markets, but California…brutal. My brother was in that space for a really long time. And I mean, he had a CRM system,.he was using PropertyRadar, he had built a custom CRM system where he knew the people that were bidding and for what companies? And if you showed up green, they would run you up. So you never showed up again. It was brutal. So good for you. I mean, but wow, two years of never pulling the trigger.

Erik Bee [00:12:35] Yeah, two. Well, so it was it was about 18 months of like going there with no money. And then he was like six months of going there with a loaded gun, you know, like, you know, I had a cashier’s check and I’d show up and I was like, nervous having them, you know, with go through all that stuff. But I was really strict on my numbers, you know, like I just like there is the line in it. And I remember that emotional jousting in the eye to eye contacts that I have. I mean, it’s like it’s game time, you know? And and so…

Aaron Norris [00:13:09] I knew your metrics and your data, though, that key. So good for you. That says a lot.

Erik Bee [00:13:14] Yeah. And so but then the wholesalers that I figured out like, oh, you can buy stuff from these people in this than the other thing. So that’s my entrance….

Aaron Norris [00:13:22] OK, so other avenues to buy besides trustee sale. OK.

Erik Bee [00:13:26] I love my entrance, you know. Oh you know, like OK. You know, I can actually perform due diligence on a property before I buy it. Oh wow. OK. There’s other opportunities. Other avenues. OK. This is the Wild Wild West. Those are really gunslingers. Those are the real…That. OK, got it. You don’t need. Oh you can play over here. OK, you know, I mean, I just figured that out that like, you know, like there’s different ways to play the game and different approaches. And so I started to develop that and get really interested in volunteering to all the REIAs, you know, like that’s what I did. You want to know the truth. Like, I’m a kind of a grind-it-out guy. If you can’t tell, like, I’m a, I show up enthusiastically to work. I like that. That’s how my dad is. That’s how we play our sports. And, you know, so like I show up to REIAs and, and I volunteer. What do you guys need? How can I help you with that?

Aaron Norris [00:14:22] Is that how you sort of fell into the Fortune Builder’s game?

Erik Bee [00:14:25] Everything.

Aaron Norris [00:14:26] Wow.

Erik Bee [00:14:27] Everything I do is like around that principle.

Aaron Norris [00:14:30] So the Fortune Builder brand. I mean, obviously, Than Merrill is very well known, the TV show. What was your role within the company while you were there?

Erik Bee [00:14:40] Yeah. So, you know, that’s kind of where it where I’m going here is like that’s exactly where I met Than. I was at a REIA event in my local town in 2006. Right when all of this was really happening and in city homes had was they were on TV at that point, I, I never I didn’t even hear I wasn’t watching TV much. And so it wasn’t that wasn’t anything to me. I was just there at the REIA. But Than Merrill at the front of the room and Than Merrill like at that time, you know, like it was just kind of one of those moments where, you know, we just connected, you know, like hit his presentation, me in that moment, there were the whole thing just like, boom, we were their beta students. We didn’t know it at the time, but we they were very young and they were just doing their first boot camps. And we were. Yes, yeah. We’ll go being enthusiastic. They’re having a resumé and being a doer. And it’s not that I had all these tremendous results per se except for, say, already a decade or six years in the industry. Right. And a very thorough understanding of what it is. So I brought insight.

Aaron Norris [00:15:54] I definitely think the guru education definitely gets a bad rap. I actually heard a lot of good things specifically about Fortune Builders because they were really focused on a lot of tools and funding and everybody learns differently. I think that’s what’s interesting. Some people really need a format. They want that boot camp experience sort of like a classroom. You know, it’s like getting your MBA. Like, for me, I know I educate best with a format where I’m consistent showing up. If you leave me on my own, I’m not always good. So everybody learns differently. And all the education out there, it’s built differently and works for some and not others. And there’s a very small percentage of people who pull the trigger and ever execute. So nothing necessarily to do with the educator and more to do with the person involved. But you are already well on your way to being in executing the business. Just what did the boot camp format do for you that made you pull the trigger?

Erik Bee [00:16:49] Yeah, it’s a great question and something that really, I think is important, because what I learned is that there’s a lot of enthusiasm in sales. OK. And so a big part of sales in general is enthusiasm and getting people into that moment of belief into wherever they’re going. And that’s sales and anything. Right. But in this guru seminar sales, they’re really great at creating energy and belief and that are done. And so they get a lot of people that that fire in and go and pay big money for different education. Unfortunately, what you see is just that enthusiasm drops off under the radar. And a lot of people don’t make their investment. They don’t they don’t get out what they put in it. It happens a lot. Now, Fortune Builders, I can tell you with the thing that really what I connected with them is that Than is, he’s a tremendous leader. He really is. And the thing about Fortune Builders, man, that he inspired the whole his whole company that way. So fulfillment was that way. And so that’s a big difference when you not only when you have a front and sales with all that energy and belief and it. People come into, you know, anybody can play real estate and you just got to learn the game. Anybody can do it. It’s the truth. And I’ve seen it go zero to hero all the time. And so you get it. You get that. What Than, though? What I believe in. You know, I had my little sliver of part of this was just doing the business and carrying that energy through the fulfillment. So leading people into action that way in with good ethics and integrity and showing them, you know, the true business for what it was in a very systematic way that, you know, if you were to really follow the steps and really take the action and do it, you know, oftentimes you have to show up with enthusiasm. You can’t just show up with a pulse, but you’ve got to show up and do it. But if you do it. There’s a result to be had.

Aaron Norris [00:18:53] Yeah, I think there’s a misconception that this business is easy and I think HDTV has ruined a lot of things, that it’s so shiny and packed, packaged in an hour’s show. But I don’t want to focus too much on that. I just. It’s important for, you know, just the sake of we’re gonna talk a little bit more about data and how complex it’s gotten. But you’ve really worked. You coming up through the appraisal, getting your broker’s license, being a real estate investor and then operating sort of in the education space. You see why people win and fail. So it’s an important conversation as we get into really where you’ve gone. So in Fortune Builders you got more into the marketing side. You really helped them a lot with their marketing. And I have to say, I’ve probably been in marketing now well over 20 years. The last 10 years has been insane. The different channels I have to focus on, the amount of just reaching people, breaking through all the noise has gotten so much more complicated. Marketing.

Erik Bee [00:19:53] Yes. So, you know, like this is this is that kind of cheater line. The inside line that I got, like, really sparked the marketing juices for me. It was a flying underneath and learning underneath Than Merrill. He’s like a marketing guy. Like, he’s just, that’s the way he thinks. Marketing and act… And sales. Marketing and sales. Marketing, sales. That’s his brain. And so I was, he I was under his right weight, you know, like for many years. Like, I got to that he I got to follow his patterns and follow his lead, and see why he was doing a lot of what he was doing. And I carried that over into real estate right in. And so I had the opportunity to manage all of the marketing in acquisitions at City Homes and here in San Diego County. And that’s their real estate invest Tamaro own city homes and that’s their investment company. And so I was leading all of their marketing and acquisitions there. And so I had his marketing budget, his marketing influence. And all I had to do is show up enthusiastically to work. Right. And just be a part of it and just go and see these experiments unfold. OK, what are we doing? And adjust and go in and try to create something, be on the front edge of what’s working, what’s not working. That was the seat that I got to sit in for four years. And I cherish that. You know, I really because I was not that it was, you know, free marketing money, but he was like, as long as we could justify the budget, we had the budget to do what we needed to do.

Aaron Norris [00:21:23] Now, to be clear, the strategy was going after off-market equity deals, correct?

Erik Bee [00:21:28] Correct. Exactly. So, yeah, we’re trying to find investment opportunities and working directly with sellers, you know, pre-market, pre, you know, we had an MLS strategy, but this was, you know, all to single-family below for, you know, two to four-unit SFR, two to four-unit type of acquisitions, most equity. But over the years that I was there, I mean, we were doing a high volume of transactions, you know, 80 to 100 ish type of transactions per year. So that’s, you know, we got really good at the foreclosure niche. There was several years there where we were doing 50 to 60 foreclosures per year. We were doing that same volume in short sales there for a while. And so I got really, really great at working within a team of foreclosures and short sales. And again, that’s where PropertyRadar was like our silver bullet to all of, you know, dissecting those transactions and setting up a team for success all the way through that.

Aaron Norris [00:22:33] Well, certainly in a specific period of time from, say, like 2007 to 2010, the majority of everybody is an opportunity, I should say the majority. But it was far easier to have conversations with banks and through the foreclosure or the short sale route because talking to equity sellers was very difficult, because a lot of times they knew the prices had gone down. But when you were presenting an offer and you were in years like ’07 where prices were coming down so quickly in California, I mean, you’re only Inland Empire, we halved our price, our median price, it was insane. And in some neighborhoods, it was worse. So, you know, you show up and maybe you send out a postcard and if you were talking to an equity seller, they call you a month later, you’re like, yeah, that price was good for that month.

Erik Bee [00:23:20] It’s yeah, we’re redoing that..

Aaron Norris [00:23:24] Brutal. Brutal. So going after the distressed market was clearly, you know, very popular. And then Sean made the switch from ForeclosureRadar to PropertyRadar, which is really important because a strategy very much changed. So you fell into marketing there. So after you left Fortune Builders, what have you been doing since?

Erik Bee [00:23:41] Well, yeah. So I spent so many years in the experiments of marketing, so direct mail, I ran all the direct mail campaigns, pulled all the list, did all the pay per click. All of the you know, the social media, the YouTube for seeking homes and everything. You know, I had all of my hands in that stuff, copyrighting, everything that goes down into it. I took that and essentially started my own company. Where were we do it, you know, on our and our turf. And then but really wanting to know take this. Because what I proved over the years and it was always kind of like I knew I was in like a science lab, you know, just doing all these different experiments. And. And here’s the real, it’s the best part of what I was doing was not only was I creating results in our markets and failures. Right? learning and adjusting and winning and learning and, you know, doing all of that on a day-to-day basis with my team, but having the opportunity to be a teacher. So I was teaching at Fortune Builders. We had a studio there, a training room. And so once a month, we’ve got to be once a month. I would host a training where 90 people from across the country would show up for three days. And I would teach exactly what we’re doing in the marketplace right now. Currently, this is the letter we’re sending. This is, you know, the messaging that we’re doing. It’s the frontline insight to everything that we’re doing. And so the best way to learn is to teach. I believe that. And so I really love teaching and I really love the way you can really sharpen your own skills by being a great, dedicated teacher. And so that was my teaching outlet. And so I, by having that, I would always get inspired the conversations from other people across the country, you know, like, oh, what’s happening in your market? I would try this. Oh,  and I would get connected to the results. And so I started to establish like a coming out, like what is working across the country, what is working and what can I start taking in a scale and really doing. And…And so I just put together the key systems that it takes to run a marketing engine from a very small, simple level to that has scale. So you can add to it and have run 10, 15 different campaigns, all as long as you have it all integrated. It is truly just a funnel that goes through a channel into, you know, and ultimately an inbox but or CRM where you’re managing your leads. And so that’s what I would teach. It’s the funnel aspect that you have to have a wider net. And then step by step into a sales process. And so we just we’ve just spent years developing that process. And now I offer that and across the country to other people that that is really want to pour into the science of marketing and acquisitions because it’s always different. You got to know the science of it to follow it, right?

Aaron Norris [00:26:37] Yeah. So That is your company. I love the word funnels because it’s channel-neutral. So let’s start at the beginning. Somebody comes to you and says, is it the people that are coming to you, is it because they’re not good at marketing or they’re trying to outsource just because they’re good at a specific side of the business? What are they looking at before they come to you?

Erik Bee [00:26:59] Most the time, it’s people that are scaling. You know, when you’re growing you, there’s only so much you can do. Right? And so oftentimes the marketing is it’s where you’re spending your money. So business owners, myself included, we all keep a really tight grip on your marketing dollars and what you’re spending on your marketing and this net for the most part. And oftentimes it’s a business owner doesn’t spend enough time there to be, you know, have a total relevant understanding them. I have a vague understanding of what is today’s marketing, but it starts getting complex quick. As far as where do you go? How do you develop a plan? How do you track it? All these different things that go into it. So it’s usually the business. My clients are the ones that are making it from a going from that small business space to: OK, now we’re running a team. Now we’re going and now we’ve got a marketing budget consistently and now we’re now we’re really going for it. Those are my clients and the ones that are shifting into that space in there. That way they can. They’re outsourcing their marketing department to a team, myself and my team. This is all we do. Like with this is we know what questions to ask. We know where to focus our attention. As far as. OK, which demographic. Well, let’s go data. I called data hunting. Let’s go see where your demographic is. Let’s go see, you know, you’ll learn real quick if you should be focusing on foreclosures or not, depending on how many there are. You know, you just go I go data hunting into the marketplace and we develop a plan based on the data and their ultimate strategy.

Aaron Norris [00:28:41] Are you. You oftentimes helping them refine their… You are. So you’re actually almost consulting them on like, hey, I know you’ve been focused here, but the data is telling me this, really?

Erik Bee [00:28:52] One hundred percent? Yeah, it’s all the whole thing, it’s you have to consult through it because it’s not it’s not the same answer everywhere. So I always go into it understanding where the results have come from, where there hasn’t been a success pattern that we can pick up on. If there is great. If there isn’t, then we need to develop one. So that’s fine. Where’s the most logical place to start developing a baseline of success that we can then start working on and improve? And that’s what it really takes.

Aaron Norris [00:29:26] We talk at PropertyRadar about chocolate versus peanut butter, chocolate being who you bring to the business, what people are good at inherently to where they can just it’s how they develop their niches, because it who they bring to the party. And then there’s the peanut butter, which is the data. It’s when the marriage of those two. So one of the questions I would immediately get from, you know, referring somebody like you would be, well, he’s just going to execute the same, you know, Investor Carrot website and he’s gonna be running the same exact ads. And I’m going to be competing with his other clients. What do you say to that?

Erik Bee [00:29:57] Yeah, it’s a great question. And so right now, there’s a first and foremost, like there’s, everybody has access to most of the same tools. There’s no I don’t have anything that’s like Woo! Which appeared. And that’s the beauty of it. Like I was, I’ll show you the way and I’ll teach you, you know, I can teach anybody the DIY, the DIY people. And there’s a lot of them. I’ll just do it. You just described that profile like, well, he’s just going to. And I can do it. Yeah, you can do it, too. Right. And you can go to grocery store and pick up everything just like, you know. And you can go like and we can all do it. It’s not a problem. Where do you want to focus your time and your ROI personally is the question now? Yes. I’ve had tremendous results with Investor Carrot websites as an example. So if there’s a success pattern there, I’m not going to tell you to change it. Let’s say let’s continue to maximize it. But let’s look where else we can maximize your results and most of the time. There’s people running run into a blank slate. They don’t. They don’t have that level of thought or time to energy to answer these questions. And that’s where they start leaning on somebody that can say, all right. This is how I would approach it. I would focus on this dataset. This is in line with what you can offer them. Right. What are you offering? Are you only offering cash offers? Right. Is that your only trick? Mm hmm. First, let’s work on that. But number two, like, let’s make sure that you’re your we’re spending the time with the demographic that can say Yes to your cash offers and not, you know, something else. Right. It’s got to be a good match there.

Aaron Norris [00:31:42] How often do… In your experience, so you’re clearly talking to somebody who’s already got experience. Doesn’t sound like you’re necessary. You’re trying to tackle people who are brand new. So in their mind, they already have an avatar, if you will, like a target. How oftentimes when you go through the process of onboarding do they end up changing who they decide to market to? I mean…

Erik Bee [00:32:03] Always, always. Almost always. Almost always.

Aaron Norris [00:32:06] Well, it’s interesting working with a marketing person that understands the business enough to know the insides and how. And the other opportunities that there are. So that’s interesting is just interesting.

Erik Bee [00:32:18] You know, like especially now, I mean, because the data set is changing so much with, you know, what is happening right now. You know, like so there’s so many, so many people there. They’re looking right now and they’re they’re just kind of scratching their head. The foreclosures are gone. The easy answer is the way you know, where that have been there, whatever. There are those. It’s all changing. Right? And so but the opportunities are always there. And so what I always do and just when we debrief with our clients. But you can right now, it’s people with equity. You know, it’s that second homes are people are selling those things quickly. You know, it’s the land rich, cash poor, is happening. And so people are having to adjust, you know, their position, you know, with their assets to get more cash into their hands. Right now, it’s just happening. And it’s going to continue to happen right now. And so we’re not going to be we’re not going to be in the foreclosure game for a little while, you know, but we are going to be… People are going to be trading equity for cash, you know. So…

Aaron Norris [00:33:27] For sure. We’re watching all the winners and losers across all the different categories. There’s going to be a lot of interesting things to watch for. And some of it we just don’t know. Nobody can predict because we don’t know that the path to containment and control of the virus. And, you know, the longer this goes on and people get a chance to sort of dig in their heels into a lifestyle adjusting to this, what if you can educate and work from anywhere in the world and you decide to take your kids on a nonstop Airbnb hopper every month, you’re just going to go to a different Airbnb across the country and experience something new. There’s just so many different ways that people can play this pandemic. And it’s going to be interesting to see real estate’s role in that. Here in California, the market’s very hot. Covid-19 has definitely changed that up. Are you seeing any major issues with marketing and communicating and finding people.

Erik Bee [00:34:19] Yeah, I mean, you know, there’s in California. It’s been hard. Been hard hit on this topic for sure. And, you know, so the thing to me is like the people that are actively marketing and if you’re getting your message out there effectively right now, there’s, I’ve had my clients that have record months and I’ve had other clients that are, you know, that are struggling to see the opportunity. So there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of mindset happening right now internally, externally. So just know, like, that’s just true. But the thing is, like, we’ve been really good at just using low-cost marketing strategies, like SMS type and marketing strategies that allow us to get to such a broad spectrum of data set. So we’re just turning through more data, people, yes’, no’s faster, bigger. And so, we’re turning up, you know, ratios it that are great. You know, our lead conversion right now is strong. And so we’re just figuring out how to be more efficient through this game and in processing.

Aaron Norris [00:35:38] Let’s back up a little bit. Real estate funnels. Let’s define funnel. Somebody is stumbling upon this little. What do you how do you describe a funnel?

Erik Bee [00:35:46] Yeah. So I. Sales funnel. So there’s a top of the funnel you’ll hear in sales. And that’s how people first meet you. You know, first see you. It’s the top of the funnel. So it’s that first outreach. Okay, so that’s that’s the very top of the funnel. Then there’s the next step down, a sales process to where you actually, you know, convert into money, if you will. Right. And so there’s all these different stages that happen. And so each one of those stages has conversion ratios. You meet this many people and then at a certain percentage of those people want to talk to you again. And then a certain percent of those people wanting to talk to you even further and then a certain percentage actually become a sale. So that’s just a sales principle in process. So at Real Estate Funnel Systems we’re, we just build that process for our clients, that we’re just through that process. Because to me, that’s where all of the answers that seem so vague. Well, what’s working? What’s not working? Well, let’s look at your funnel. Let’s look at your conversions in your ratios where that’s where the answers are. Are you if you’re reaching, if you have a 50 percent response rate, but you have a point one conversion rate that just tells me you’re talking to so many people, but nobody’s interested. Right. Nobody is interested. So, like, okay, so let’s understand these ratios. I would rather talk to a fewer amount of people that convert at a much higher ratio. Right?

Aaron Norris [00:37:20] So do you have a target ratio, conversion ratio out of the gate that you’re always in the back your mind you want to hit?

Erik Bee [00:37:27] Yeah, per channel. So, you know, like, right now we’re playing so heavy in the science of text message marketing. And it’s really that’s a fun arena. And that’s not the only arena that we play in. But that’s a fun arena to plan because you’re so much instant results.

Aaron Norris [00:37:48] Really. OK.

Erik Bee [00:37:50] You know, test a measure is like you can test one phrase against another phrase as an open liner and get a ratio within an hour. Wow. Okay. Okay. You know, because just 80 percent of your responses when you send a text message, happen within the first hour day. So you just get this level of instant result back. And so then, you know, of course, the results will continue to come in from a text message beyond that. But when you start understanding, like, hey, we can create these phrases, intro statements, conversation starters, and you have to be as creative as possible. Here’s the challenge of all this game, is that we’re at war with the carriers. The carriers are trying to shut down spam and sales and all this stuff. They don’t want this to be happening. And we are systematically doing OK. So we have to be compliant. There’s a whole set of rules and things that have to be aware of in order to even be relevant in this arena. So…

Aaron Norris [00:38:57] And I’m not that guy. So I would definitely hire only people that know how to play the space carefully.

Erik Bee [00:39:04] You know. So if it becomes really heartbreaking when you have you, you’re all jazzed up on your text message campaign and you build a, you know, opening line phrase. You send it out to a thousand people and it didn’t get delivered to you. Why? And you don’t even know why. And until you go further and then you ask more questions and you go, you know, spend hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours finding out that there are certain keywords and there’s not a published list necessarily. But there are certain keywords that if you put them in any text message, it will immediately go span get marked. So there’s a whole science, an algorithm that you’ve got to be aware of to then play into.

Aaron Norris [00:39:48] So you’re saying that the carriers will shut down the delivery before it even happens?

Erik Bee [00:39:52] Yeah. Based on words.

Aaron Norris [00:39:54] OK, a quick, embarrassing story. I learned this really hard lesson. I love to test. I bought this program and I forgot where I bought this e-mail list of Realtors. It was a long time ago. I bought this program knowing that if I tried to email the Realtors out of the blue with cold email that the Internet service providers would shut me down because it says, I don’t know who you are. You’ve never emailed this person before. So AOL cut me off. So I was like, OK,I know the name of this game. I bought a program that throttled one email a minute. And I just left it running for weeks until one day it was clear that none of the emails from anybody in the company was being delivered. It was just everything was bouncing. And we’re like, what happened? I had been blacklisted by three different Internet service providers. I thought I had understood the rules. We had to hire a technology company an entire week at high expense to beg to be un blacklisted because we couldn’t send e-mails out at all. It was terrible. So I can’t stress the importance of doing it right. And I didn’t know the carriers were onto that game and were able to shut things down. So that’s good to know.

Erik Bee [00:41:06] Oh, totally. No, you’re exactly right. And I’ve got so many more stories of just like that. Exactly. And how would you know? Right? And two, because these little hacks show up in this, and that, and, but it’s a serious game. And so I’ve had clients like, oh, because you can now skip trace, skip tracing has opened the door to a whole lot of people, to a whole lot of information that didn’t previously have access to it. Like whether, you know, it’s just now skip tracing it’s gotten so easy compared to five years ago. Even, you know, even 10 years ago, skip tracing was just, you know, private detective stuff. Like now it’s like you buy a list, go skip tracing. Where do you get, you know.

Aaron Norris [00:41:50] Yeah.

Erik Bee [00:41:52] So now people will take that list and then just cold e-mail and do cold e-mail campaigns and then blow up there you are ill and get flagged and get and then all of a sudden they’re, they’re SEO goes, and they’re like, it’s all connected.

Aaron Norris [00:42:06] It is. You have to be so careful.

Erik Bee [00:42:09] It’s all connected. So an understanding that it’s all connected when you build out your funnel strategy. Like there’s certain it’s not that you can’t play in the cold email game, but you have to do it in a way that if it breaks, it won’t tip anything else back. OK. Right. There’s certain firewalls that you can set up to still dabble. It’s still run experiments in certain areas. Right. So so it’s just to kind of keep relevant. But at the end of the day, like, we really, really love the experiments that we’ve been playing with the text message game and in establishing and improving upon metrics on that game because it’s inspiring.

Aaron Norris [00:42:53] So the text sounds like a top of funnel awareness, a function. Is it. Is it a function strictly of the cost per impression?

Erik Bee [00:43:03] Yeah. Deliverability. OK.

Aaron Norris [00:43:05] OK.

Erik Bee [00:43:05] And then response, timeliness of the response where it wins just about every category down the funnel, if you will, when done properly. So like our, our texting campaigns, they have the highest deliverability rate. And then so you know that your client we can measure how many of them just even got to our clients. We know exactly 98 percent of our message got right to our client’s pocket. OK, perfect. That’s what I want to know. Right. And then I can see, OK, how many of them, you know, obviously responded to them in the open. Right. OK. Wow. Oh, wow. I can see that. And then. Then how many reply directly to us within how long. Right. I can see that metric really quickly. So all the way down to a contract. And yeah, it’s where you start with text.

Aaron Norris [00:43:58] And what other what other channels are you really incorporating into your integrated marketing strategies these days?

Erik Bee [00:44:05] So. Well, we were text and we do custom Facebook audiences. So with marketing, it’s the omni presence of, you know, you got to just kind of be around your clients, you know, essentially, and the better you can do that, the better, the more effective your marketing is. So I like you and what we’re focused on as a company is just direct to your cell phone marketing. Right? That’s the device that we’re all addicted to, that it’s now the smartphone is now in just about everybody’s hand, you know, my grandma like from head to toe. My son, who is, you know, like if everybody’s got him now, it’s just like, period. Right.

Aaron Norris [00:44:48] So that’s what marketers have to do. It’s a fast way to cut through the noise fast. Fast way to cut through the noise.

Erik Bee [00:44:53] Yeah. Yeah. So. So with that being said, so we do some RVM messaging. We dabble in that.

Aaron Norris [00:45:01] What does RVM stand for.

Erik Bee [00:45:03] Ringless voicemail message.

Aaron Norris [00:45:05] Got it. Yeah.

Erik Bee [00:45:06] So we used to do that a lot more than we are doing it now because it that’s, it creates a lot of noise and the rest of the metrics, the conversion ratio is down. The RVM route had not been as good for whatever reason. People like to get upset about that delivery method. But they the. So we do RVM text message and we do Facebook custom audiences. And so we match our audience to Facebook so that our message is being delivered, delivered directly to them. So just about any time they’re on their cell phone, there’s going to be hearing from us.

Aaron Norris [00:45:46] They’ve always got it. They don’t have to go to the mail to pick it up. Now, do you still like direct mail as a channel?

Erik Bee [00:45:51] Yeah. Absolutely. We’re just very selective in when we do our direct mail. The direct mail is always going to have its place. I am a firm believer in historically, if you were to say, well, where have you gotten your most results from? Historically, I would have to say direct mail. Like, you know, granted, I have the most years doing direct mail for sure, but direct mail always have a place. I just use kind of reverse funnel process to it like I used to. Lower cost per touch points to weed through the list. If I can start a conversation with you for five cents or less, let me do that before I send you a dollar. You know, before I spend a dollar to talk to, you know, for sure, you know. So that’s that’s kind of my approach. We use that as filtering right down to. OK. This part of the list didn’t react to anything else. And here we go.

Aaron Norris [00:46:47] The PESO model of marketing, it’s it’s a chart I forget. I’ll post a if you’re on YouTube listening to this, I’ll post it. If you’re not familiar with the model and I forget who created it. It’s one of the most brilliant ways that I’ve seen, sort of the different functions of marketing, public relations and advertising sort of communicated. It stands for paid, earned, shared and owned and sort of in the middle of those circles that are all running into each other, you have influence. So do you sit down with customers and sort of find out where they’re going to thrive the most? How much is people-centric vs. market-centric?

Erik Bee [00:47:22] It’s so people-focused. Really? Honestly. Yeah, I think that’s how that’s my approach and that’s my vantage point to it. I really believe it’s this what we do it it’s it’s a people business. Right. And so how we approach what we how we say, how we set up every step of the communication is about connection with our clients in how we support them and making a very serious decision, you know. And so…

Aaron Norris [00:47:53] So, so you’ll tweak your campaigns to back a little bit more into them personally instead of doing the same exact cookie-cutter for every client.

Erik Bee [00:48:04] Of course. Yeah, you really I mean, we have a baseline we have a really great template.

Aaron Norris [00:48:09] Right.

Erik Bee [00:48:09] To work from. But everybody’s a little bit different. And so but I definitely try to steer my clients into a really well-rounded real estate approach, you know, like this… I think my approach to real estate has always been an investor and real estate agent working together, you know, in really balancing different options and not pigeonholing a client into one scenario or one option, if you will. So that creates better results, better testimonials. But I mean, all the way down the line, more options. There’s a bazillion different benefits of really setting yourself up that way on the front end. And so that’s what I really help my clients see and execute at a more efficient level.

Aaron Norris [00:48:58] Let me run around the PESO wheel, and maybe get some ideas of the metrics that you think are important that people might not be thinking of and how successful they have been in the mix. So let’s start at the very end with Owned. How important is it for a real estate professional to have their own developed channels like their own website? The things that they ultimately control that are not reliant on anybody else but them.

Erik Bee [00:49:22] Yeah. I think it’s important. That’s what I would call the foundation. You know, what you own is your foundation. And I think the more long term committed you are to the business, the more important your foundation is. Period. And so so, yeah, I always encourage everybody to, you know, have a strong foot forward on your base Website where you own it. And your YouTube channel. You know, that’s the other asset that you’re going to be hearing more and more and more of is YouTube is growing. Its influence in its media center is staggering. So people, like, really understanding, you know, that’s something those are assets that you can own and communication channels that you can share. So that’s what I’m really helping clients understand and start to build out.

Aaron Norris [00:50:23] I think that Owned plays the most important role in the sort of the search engine optimization space as well. I always warnedin real estate professionals, lock up all your brands and all the social, but make sure that you’re also in social things like address. And if you’re marketing to people and they sort of go searching on the Internet, you have to be very careful what shows up. You better know what’s showing up. And if you don’t, I think people can get suspicious. I think that’s really changed. Once upon a time, it was fine if you didn’t have a Website. I don’t think it’s not only important for you to have a website, you have to look a little bit like a professional.

Erik Bee [00:51:00] Yes. You know what I mean? So there’s two sides to that, I’ll say. OK. Yeah, there’s two sides to that in. I see this in the field quite a bit because the right and the right answer is the more established you are and you come across online, it helps in every way. It just everything is easier if that’s the case. So that’s the answer. You know, put it put a lock and key on that, especially, you know, as is the longer you play the game. Now, the caveat to that is if I mean a direct response scenario with a client, how often have they had them or handled that objection of like, well, let me see your website before I talk to you or get real serious about this. In the hand-to-hand combat scenario of, you know, getting that phone sale moment. It doesn’t come up that often. OK. Now, how often does it come up when you and you don’t know about it. Those are the dead. You know, like when they’re doing things that they didn’t tell you, they looked at it. Right? They but they surely did. You know, how do you measure that? Right? And so you’re right. That’s hard.

Aaron Norris [00:52:20] Bandit signs are one of those things where somebody said, oh, put a number and you want them to call and you want to talk to them. Don’t send them to, don’t put your website on a bandit sign. It’s, you call. So. OK, I just. As far as owned stuff you can look at, it’s just ranking locally to wherever you’re investing. You can start playing the search engine optimization game of ranking for your keywords. And because as you’re building out websites, you can actually drive down paid ads because you’re basically driving people to be useful. And I think especially as we get into voice search optimization, as we engage more with these voice bots, it’s something that we have to learn how to play the game better. And it’s just setting up your brand appropriately, backing into what you’re doing, creating content that makes sense for your brand and location.

Erik Bee [00:53:06] Absolutely. And that’s it’s like the snowball that just keeps building. The better, the better. You do it upfront. You just it just pays off big as you go.

Aaron Norris [00:53:16] With a lot of the funnels to always warn people, one of my goals is always to drive it to own channels, something that I can control, trying to capture their email, their phone number or drive them to the website to where I can deliver sort of remarketing campaigns because social makes me nervous. I mean, we’ve got Friendster, MySpace, Vine, you know, we’re looking at TikTok, maybe becoming an issue when you build your entire brand on a social channel that you don’t control and that could go away. It is really scary.

Erik Bee [00:53:48] It’s really hard to predict.

Aaron Norris [00:53:49] Yeah. What have you had good success on social media when it comes to conversions that you can point to because of social ads?

Erik Bee [00:53:58] It’s hard. It’s the hardest arena. I know where. It’s the engagement. So the ads that we’ve been playing with that we’ve had the best results as of lately are the ones the messenger bot ad style. So we’re actually creating an engaging, So it’s when it’s funny how we are. It’s like this is part of our science of human nature right now is how we just want a response right away. It’s like this instant thing. You know, so if I can get a response right away, then you have my attention. Right? So that’s how those bought ads work is. Okay. Learn more information. They click that, Learn more information. Then, boom, a question with a Yes or No button. And if the question is engaging enough, it’s easy to get me to put yes or no very little effort. Yes or no. I’ll see where this is gonna go.

Aaron Norris [00:54:48] OK.

Erik Bee [00:54:50] And then you have another engaging question that will have its choose-your-own-adventure style questions. So it just makes it easier for them to naturally engage with you. Which brings them down further down the psychological sales process, makes it, more interest, more and more interest.

Aaron Norris [00:55:09] On YouTube, You said that was an exciting channel for you. Why?

Erik Bee [00:55:13] Because I think that it plays a big role in this, you know, kind of in the bigger foundation of your footprint and I think that YouTube is you know, there’s no YouTube TV. Right? So where instead of Comcast or whatever else, you’re just paying YouTube. That’s already here and that’s going to be growing. And so what that allows is the Internet. You can take your YouTube, my YouTube account to when I take my European vacation or wherever else. I still have my access to my same media and everything else. And so the image channel viewership is growing in commitment to like, you know, YouTube fans and being dedicated. I now have a handful of YouTube channels that I’m like a dedicated fan of. Right. For not only for, you know, like a personal but professional and all these different niches. Now I’m using YouTube more in my life than I ever have. And I think that that’s going to be continue to school for all of us. But you should see my son. Holy cow.

Aaron Norris [00:56:21] Why is he, you know, a YouTuber? Or…

Erik Bee [00:56:24] Well, like he’s, he follows. I mean, like, this is a big part of why I’m developing this opinion is because, like me, in the way watching my 10-year-old in the way he’s interacting with the device, the Internet and whatever else, it’s YouTube. He’s following YouTubers, he has, he subscribes to in he found his niche. He found his world and it’s incredible the amount of content and then the other followings, there’s millions of people following the same little niche that you and I would have no idea that is out there.

Aaron Norris [00:57:01] Yeah, I heard a metric that 70 percent of views on YouTube at this point are now coming from the algorithm as well. So as you’re sort of processing that metric, why it plays such a good role in SEO if you do it right, there’s some opportunities to optimize at the channel level, the playlist level, and then the video level. So everything from your title to the description to close captioning to the buttons that you the artwork that you create. It is a science and.

Erik Bee [00:57:30] Now you’re letting the secret’s out. Yes.

Aaron Norris [00:57:32] Well, I do eventually, I do want to get a specific YouTube or on the channel to really talk about the data and the science, the science behind each of these channels, because it’s not. And I think that’s why a lot of people are going to come to somebody like you. You happen to use PropertyRadar. It’s one of the technology stacks that you can use to help people discover the audience. But the social media stack is sometimes very dependent on the personality and the person. Some people are just really awkward in front of YouTube. I always say as a joke, like maybe you have a radio face. If you’re awkward in front of YouTube, it’s awkward. Nobody is going to watch you. So you really need to understand what you bring to the table or find somebody in your company who can do that. But it is, when you do a Google search, and I know Google is still a very predominant search engine. The vast majority of traffic that I see to website our websites that I’m involved in. That’s where it’s coming from. You get the paid ads up front, the geographic ads are there, some natural, and video ranks really high. Once upon a time, tweets were showing up in search on mobile, but not on desktop. But now the tweets are gone again. So it’s you know, it’s playing the game.

Erik Bee [00:58:41] Google owns…

Aaron Norris [00:58:43] YouTube, the second largest search engine. You just have to know. So it’s good. OK. Paid ads have definitely changed for me and I. It’s in our space in the real estate professional space, the cost has gone up a lot. A lot. And the conversion rate has gone down.

Erik Bee [00:59:05] So we have gone away…

Aaron Norris [00:59:07] From paid ads. That’s great to hear. I think that’s so important. I think people end up…

Erik Bee [00:59:12] You see what you just said? It’s just that it’s just. Yep.

Aaron Norris [00:59:16] I have to tell you a quick story, because this is hilarious. I paid, I Survived Real Estate with the Norris Group. It was a nonprofit function we did, and an HGTV brand I talked to, this is not HGTV itself, but it was an affiliate website. They’re like, oh, we can get you millions of views. And, you know, I’m like, OK, well, OK, I’m going to give you this. Add millions of views. Even if I get like point zero one percent, that’s going to drive some great traffic. Over three months, millions of supposed website impressions that I was being delivered. I had three click throughs. I just want to, I paid three thousand dollars and I negotiated that because it was a nonprofit event. So I paid $1,000 dollars per click. I couldn’t measure any conversions because I couldn’t. And so I basically am pretty sure that it was me on clicking those, making sure it was still a really rough lesson. Don’t do that when you’re talking to somebody that is talking strictly about impressions and not conversions. I just always warn people run away if they’re not having a really solid conversation about conversions, you’re working with the wrong people.

Erik Bee [01:00:28] Well said. Totally, totally agree. And painful lessons that I’ve learned time and time again. And it always comes down to conversion. You’re so, so right. And without that metric, I don’t care. It doesn’t matter. Without a conversion metric, it just doesn’t freaking matter.

Aaron Norris [01:00:51] I also remember the very first time I hired somebody to do my paid ads, and I was so proud of myself. I set it up and like, yeah, my reach is two hundred thousand. And my, you know, my clickthrough is or this and my conversions this. He came in and he more than half and nothing happened to my conversions except I paid less for them. I’m all, okay, I’m embarrassed. We’re running out of time, we’re getting to the end and we’re a little bit all over the place. But I wanted to land on this E concept and I’m gonna do another show on the earned the Public Relations side of things. But I want to cover it this way with you. Somebody hires you and outsourcing because of wanting to scale on the earned media front. What can they do to support you? In everything that you’re doing, is it being out in the community? Is it creating content in-house? And you leveraging it? Is it closing more deals because they’re taking, you know, training on sales? Like, how can keep your customers help you do more business?

Erik Bee [01:01:55] Yeah. Wonderful question. Thank you. You can’t content’s king right now. To me, you know, so I just. Anytime that I am, I have a full schedule of videos that I need to be shooting at. You know, my queue is long, you know. And so a big push for us is just to put out quality content. I mean, you know, things that we believe in. I want to be helping as many people as possible. I truly believe in leading that way with serve. I seek to serve. And it’s just the way it is. That’s the way I’ve always run my business. And so I see putting out content that way. If I can help you and if I can help you for free, I will surely will. A lot of people and serious clients. And the more serious you are about it, the more they want to pay you, because the more they get out of you. And it’s just the way you. You can buy any book for, you know, for what it is. But to really get it. You go, you know, and. And that’s how I’m going to operate. You know, I’m not trying to be the biggest marketing agency in the world. What I’m trying to be is really focused on the quality and the niche of my clients. And I do only work with one client per market. I do not double stack markets on top of each other whenever I work with anybody. And it’s because I’m dedicated to my client in their results, period. That’s what I have to be.

Aaron Norris [01:03:16] OK. Is there any kind of content that you just think we should be focused on?

Erik Bee [01:03:22] Yeah, for me, I think the mass migration, you know, of what’s happening on the big scale and what are the bigger trends so that we can be, you, we individually can better position if we understand a mass trend, a direction of what’s happening. You can now put yourself in a better position in front of that mass, whatever is happening in that one direction. And here’s a simple example. And there’s so many more. But like the baby boomers retiring in how many how many people are downsizing in any one market? In four with equity in they’re you know, they’re going they’re selling the house that they’ve owned for 20 years. You know, those that mass migration of people understanding that for what it is that you can say, wow, there is a big channel, a mass migration of something happening. How can I stand in front of it to serve them? How can I make sure that I can help them with whatever they’re doing in this mass way? I want my marketing message. I want my business. I want everything to be in line with service there.

Aaron Norris [01:04:43] Well, we have run out of time, but I’m going to make sure to post all the links on the website. And maybe I’m hoping that you can join me on the live premiere in a couple of weeks on this and we can answer questions if that’s cool with you.

Erik Bee [01:04:55] Yeah, I would love to.

Aaron Norris [01:04:56] OK. Thank you for listening to the Data Driven real estate podcast. You can find show notes and links to some of the resources mentioned in the show at Click to join the community and you’ll be forwarded to the PropertyRadar community where you can ask questions about the current show and even see upcoming guests and ask questions there. We’d love to engage with you in the community, so check it out. Please don’t forget to like, favorite, subscribe, and share on your favorite platform where you’re listening to the show. It helps us out a great deal. Thanks for listening and we’ll see you next week.