Evicting Tenants: How effective are Cash For Keys offers?

If the PTFA law makes landlords honor existing leases, or at least provide 90 day notice to move: 1) How effective are cash for keys offers to expedite eviction? Do tenants typically feel uncomfortable enough or motivated to move out (with or without a cash for keys offer) or do they usually exercise their rights to stay 90 days or the remainder of their lease? 2) What is a typical effective Cash for Keys offer? Is it 2K, 5K 10K and for typically for 15 or 30 days? 3) should investors avoid bidding on a property without knowing if there is a tenant, the lease status and the intention of the lessee? 4) What is the most efficient way to determine if a property has a tenant?? Is just checking to see that the owner has a different mailing address on ForeclosureRadar, enough?

Posted by Bob
from CA




43 Answers

2
You most definitly owe sec deposit. Assuming renewal or ne wlease is bogus...offer sec deposit & cash for keys separate in amount of 2 months rent, once you go armed with legal infomation that substaniates your case that the 800 mos lease will be dismissed. However, a smart tenant will check this out to so make sure you come with facts. If lease is valid legally for 3 yrs at 800 per month...they can pay new owner that amount or be bought out at 28,800. (800*36 months). If the lease is valid...is the home worth it. Assuming it is, buy them out.

Answered by Lynne


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Hi Lynne, There has been a lot of debate within these forums regarding the security deposit. It is my understanding that the security deposit is held by the prior owner and is not the responsibility of the bank or a 3rd party investor after a trustee sale. A tenant could take the prior owner to small claims court for the return of the deposit. Typically a bank or investor will offer a cash for keys incentive because they are not responsible for returning the security deposit held by the prior owner and this C4K gives the tenants the funds to help them with relocation costs. Michelle
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In negotiations with a bank for a foreclosed single family home in Los Angeles that has a tenant. Tenant has supplied us with a "lease" signed with previous owner 2 months before home went back to bank. Lease is 3 years in length and for substantially below market value ($800 per month in neighborhood where rents are minimum $2,500+ per month) for home type and area. Everyone including broker who has listing for bank thinks the lease is forged. Is the "lease" valid or can they be evicted upon close of escrow. We will be owner/occupier. Cash for keys a good option? What are potential hazards? Also issue of now missing security deposit tenant paid at start of lease... Any light that you can shed would be greatly appreciated. Waiting in Hollywood...

Answered by Alex


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HI Alex, Sean wrote a great blog post about this a couple of years ago http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/auction-investors-reo-brokers-and-renters-take-note-significant-change-eviction-notice-req/ It is my understanding that the lease would have to be signed prior to the Notice of Default and in order to be a bona fide lease agreement it would have to be an arms length transaction (no relationship between the tenant and the mortgagor) or not substantially less than fair market rent for the property. Once you arm yourself with the information found on the blog post listed above your best bet may be to negotiate a cash for keys deal. If you can resolve this through negotiation that is always the best option. Michelle
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My husband and I have been renting a house in SoCal for about 1.5 years. We renewed our lease at the end of November, but shortly afterward found that the owner's were not paying the mortgage. The house did not sell at auction, but reverted to the lender on Friday, 3/16/12. By Monday, a RE agent was on our door asking questions and warning us that we would have to be out within three weeks or so. I provided them with my telephone number, so that we could easily stay in touch. I let him know we had a lease and wanted to stay. He requested a copy, so I said I would talk to my husband and forward it to him in a day or so. Well, until I provided a copy, they called my cell phone hourly and came knocking a second time. I felt more than a little harassed. Finally, I emailed them the original lease & renewal and they made an OK offer of cash to vacate within three weeks. I expressed that we would need a little more time, because of our dogs. I made a counter-offer (more money and an extra two weeks), in writing and now it has been a week without any kind of response. How long do I wait before I ask them if they've made a decision? Any advice would be helpful.

Answered by Pia


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Thanks, Mike. The first offer came in writing. Both the bank and the RE company are large, well known entities. I'm not worried about getting swindled. I'm just worried that they didn't like that we didn't jump at their first offer. I'm just wondering if their playing chicken with us.

Answered by Pia


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If you are a bona fide tenant, not a relative of the owner, arm's length transaction, etc, then you will get 90 days from when they serve you with a notice to quit, notice of termination of tenancy. It will actually be more than 90 calendar days as certain holidays don't count. If you have pets or other issues that may make finding a new home mroe difficult, I would suggest you carefully analyze the value of the CFK agreement and the time you need to move. The 90 days can be very useful. And, in most cases, no one will even ask you for rent. Who is the bank? Richard
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1) I am thinking about bidding on a couple of properties at auctions; How is ownership of the appliances established? . I think the owners are living there now. In theory, built-ins (oven, micro-waves, dishwashers) become part of the real property. Microwaves not built in, most refrigerators, a free standing range are personal property. A grey area would be a slide-in range. A former owner intnet on trashing would take everything. ==== 2) Also, how can I determine in advance of the sale who is ,in fact, living in the house. You have to be a detective and spend some time. Talk to a neighbor, see who the mail is delivered to, become friendly with someone at the utility company, run down the license plate of the car in the garage. ===== 3) On the property I am interested in, the loan that is being foreclosed on isn’t shown on ForeclosureRadar (though later assignments of it are, so it may be an oversight), I am planning to go to the county to see if I can find it there, tomorrow. Is it true that it must be recorded for it to be legitimate? The loan IS recorded. The recording info would be on the various assignments of said loan. It would also be on the NOD and NOS. Think about it - how would a lender be able to reference a (non-existent TD on said docs if it weren't recorded in the first place???

Answered by miket


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MikeT - you are a star, thanks for the prompt and insightful replies! Steven - In order for a NOD to show in our system it has to be tied to a loan, so I don't see how it would be showing. That said, please feel free to email support (at) foreclosureradar.com and they'd be happy to research it for you. Sean
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Do you have a deposit up with the former owner? That will factor into what the the bank owes you. CFK would be on top of that. Of course the deposit would be applied towards rent that you aren't paying now. When was the last time you paid?

Answered by miket


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Yes, but it is under $1000. The place was a mess when we moved in and needed a lot of work & cleaning, so they only requested a nominal amount. Our rent was paid in March. So, I'm wondering if I need to pay the bank tomorrow. I don't want to volunteer if they don't expect to receive it. But on the other hand, I don't want them to evict us based on non-payment. Can they do that, though we haven't come to an understanding, yet?

Answered by Pia


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Wtih BofA it is not personal. They are incompetent and very slow. I know a tenant that was living in a BofA foreclosure, she had birds, goats, llamas, etc paying less than market renta and she was on unemployment. She countered that she needed more time, BofA refused, eventually serverd a 90 day notice, she lived there for 6 months from the date of the foreclosure to the end of her actual ninety days and never paid rent. Was a better deal for her to stay rent free than to agree to move faster than she could find a place. My advice, is do what is best, but do get out. You don't want to test your luck with BofA, they are heartless bastards and will have no problem throwing you out if they can get away with it. Richard
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Hi, I really liked reading all the information listed, my son is renting a home and the real-estate company called him over the phone tell him the owner lost his job and can no longer afford his two properties and was moving out of state and putting the rental property up for short sale and they would be out to post for sale sign in yard and list an ad in newspaper they would also list that there are current tenants in the home. At the time of short sale being completed they would be given a written notice to vacate unless the buyers decide to keep them. Does anyone know where we can get info or advice on his rights? We do not know if the property is in foreclosure yet. We already called Nevada Legal Services I guess you have to be dirt poor to qualify because my son is not working but his girlfriend is and they have a sliding fee scale. They advised of two websites: www.nevadaevictionlaw.com and www.nevadarenterslaw.com but I only see stuff on short sale procedures for buyers and sellers, nothing for tenants other than buyer can honor their lease and let them stay or give them notice to vacate. If anyone has any info that could help, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Angela

Answered by Angela


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Hi Angela, The owner would need to give the tenants notice to vacate. They would need to read their lease/rental agreement to see if that is 30 or 60 days (typical). You can also reach out to a local real estate agent in your area. They should be able to assist you with your rights and also help you find a new rental unit. If they new owner would like to continue to rent to them then you would want to sign a new lease/rental agreement with them and make sure that the deposit is transferred from the prior owner to the new owner. Michelle
I did a cfk transaction outside of foreclosure, just to get the illegal sub tenant out so I can re-rent right away. There was an agreement signed that states that the cash is for the exchange of keys only. Could I still file a judgement against the illegal subtenant for damages and the loss of the months rent I incurred. JDN
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1. Very effective if you have good people skills and the folks aren't completely whacked. 2. Expect to pay 1-2 months rent. Most folks need 1st and deposit to move. Start at half that. 3. Some investors do avoid them. That may mean you can get a better deal, so its a tradeoff. The key is to know. 4. While a different address is a good clue, it isn't enough. Lots of "investors" bought as owner-occupants to get better rates, and as such used the property address as their personal address. Only sure way I know is to ask. Either the occupant, or sometimes a neighbor. Tools like Accurint or Merlin Data can also help if you want to spend the time and money really digging into who might live there.

Answered by Sean


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Great, thanks, good information! If I can coax you to be a tad more specific to #1, would you guess cash for keys offers are effective 95% of the time (only get stuck 5%)? I know there are tenant rights websites detailing and encouraging tenants to fight for their rights. How many times have you tried this, just to get a good understanding of your "sampling." Bob
Also, if you offer 1 or 2 months, is it to move in 15 days, 30 days? Bob
I've purchased more than 150 foreclosures, and I'm sure at least 100 had an occupant. No idea how many were renters vs. owners, but plenty of each. The web has certainly made everyone an "expert" - but cash for keys isn't about tricking people out of their rights, so I don't know that it matters much. I won't give you a % because as I indicated above it really depends on the negotiation skills of the person handling it. I've had folks working for me with a zero success rate, and others 100% successful. Impossible to say how you will do. Sean
No hard and fast rules. You need to assess the reality. If the folks have two pieces of furniture and look like they could really use some cash, you might want to start with offering $500 if they are out tomorrow. If you have a family that's been in the house for 10 years, with every nook and cranny full to the brim, your going to need to expect it to take longer. I think the most important thing to understand about the foreclosure business is that there is no formula. Nothing always works. Common sense and flexibility are the key. Sean
1) So of your 100 or so purchases with occupants, did you offer Cash for Keys, and in your own personal experience, (I'm assuming you have good people skills) were you successful say 95% of the time? 2) Owner occupants have three days to quit, right (at least here in California)? So I assume cash4keys is not as important, as you have legal leverage to force a quick exit, though I'm sure some occupants want to continue living rent free. So are Cash for Keys offers necessary or helpful when dealing with the prior owner/occupant? Bob
1) Can't recall. I personally wasn't great, primarily used others who were better than I at it. 2) 3 days to quit, only means 3 days before you can file the unlawful detainer. Entire process is 45-90 days. cash-4-keys is almost always the right way to go. Sean
Sean -- You suggest using services like Accurint or Merlin Data to find out more on who is occupying a property. Do you mind being more specific on the exact Accurint and Merlin Data products you suggest for doing this (Both services offer a slew of products). It'd be nice to have an extra option as talking to neighbors and getting info from occupants isn't always fruitful. BTW I find your online service suggestions helpful. In the past, you suggested I look into TitlePoint Express which is an amazing service. Andrew
Andrew - its been a couple of years since I've subscribed to either. I do remember that getting started with them is somewhat daunting. I'd suggest getting on the phone with each company, tell them what you are trying to do and have them make a recommendation and walk you through registration. Sean
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Another successful strategy that I have seen used frequently is to offer a certain sum, say for example $2,000, if the house is vacated in one month. Then further agree to pay an additional $500 for every week the house is vacated sooner than that. The occupant then has incentive to move out sooner. Also, you may want to have the occupant sign a written "Relocation Assistance Agreement" (a.k.a. cash for keys agreement) which includes a provision that the house will be turned over in good condition, broom swept clean and with all appliances and fixtures in place. While actual enforcement of the written agreement may become a procedural challenge, it will make expectations and obligations clear .

Answered by Mark


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Here's a novel idea: leave the tenants alone and let them stay as provided under federal law. Realtors are playing with fire by harassing tenants, lying to them about their rights, and prematurely displacing tenants from their homes, which happens all too frequently. And for what? So that the homes can sit vacant after tenants move. Don't forget -- tenants are innocent victims in this foreclosure crisis. Sean's comment that "If the folks have two pieces of furniture and look like they could really use some cash, you might want to start with offering $500 if they are out tomorrow" is particularly troublesome. Sean, can we assume that along with the $500 offer you are informing the tenants of their right to stay for 90 days or through their lease term?

Answered by Dean


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Give us a break Dean. Auction investors are in business, and to survive in this business you have to turn houses quickly. I'm not suggesting anyone lie, or deny folks their rights, but let's be super clear... their is nothing illegal, or immoral about offering a tenant cash to vacate prior to the end of their lease. Often it is in the best interest of the renter... especially since they will likely have little luck recovering their deposit from the prior owner. And, NO, the buyer at auction is NOT responsible for returning that deposit. Cash-4-keys is a win-win, whether folks understand their rights or not. It certainly isn't the job of the auction buyer, or the investors Realtor to inform tenants of their rights. Finally - tenants may be innocent, but they OFTEN benefit by skipping rent for months during the foreclosure. And given the notices posted on the property and people coming by they are NEVER unaware of the situation. Check out our homeowner and renter forum and you'll see posts from renters asking how to stay for free as long as possible and still get cash-4-keys. Walk a mile in an investors shoes before you cast aspersions. Finally, in my experience most tenants actually find it a RELIEF to be offered cash-4-keys and move on. Sean
Great info, as always. Re: "It certainly isn't the job of the auction buyer, or the investors Realtor to inform tenants of their rights." I just want to be sure about doing this right. Legally, when the auction buyer provides notice, there is no legal requirement to inform tenant in writing of their rights? I heard from an eviction firm that the buyer should provide a 3 day notice "to vacate or to provide a copy of a bonafide lease," and possibly to provide notice of their rights for 90 days in absence of the lease. I assume this can be concurrent with a cash for keys offer. (My understanding was If they don't respond in 3 days, you can start the Unlawful Detainer process). Bob
Bob - two separate issues. One is contacting the occupant re: cash for keys. At that point you are simply approaching the tenant with an offer to move faster for cash - with the alternative being eviction. Note that I clearly said you should not lie - so if the person asks how long they are allowed to stay under the law, I would answer honestly. I disagree with Dean that you are required to sit the person down and inform them of every right they have whether they ask or not. Separately when you begin the eviction process you need to provide the notice to quit as required by California law. On that front I would follow the text outlined in the law and recommended by your eviction service. Sean
1) So you're saying to use two separate notices, and Cash for Keys comes first, and notice to quit comes a few days after? It just seems like if they get an Notice to Quit after they've received the Cash4Keys it might be misunderstood... maybe better to wrap up into one notice? 2) In regards to people skills, do you recommend that a Cash for Keys offer be first presented in person, or on the phone to the tenant, instead of certified mail or FedEx? 3) It sounds like you want to get in the offer as quickly as possible and basically not make specific comments about the tenants rights? So how do you phrase the part about "the alternative being eviction." Must you leave it vague as to when the eviction will be--otherwise you could be misleading them? If you can pm or email me on a sample Offer or notice I would appreciate. Bob
1) I don't recommend a notice for cash-4-keys. Its a negotiation. 2) In person. 3) Say whatever you want, just don't lie. Sorry, I don't have a script. As I said above each case is different. If you go off a script and don't take the other persons issues into account you will likely fail. Win-win requires listening - not notices by fed ex. Sean
Okay, so you present the Cash for Keys offer in person and I assume give them the offer in writing... do you wait until you get a firm rejection or a couple days of no response before submitting a Notice to Quit or do you simultaneously provide this and start UD or some other process in the background regardless of the offer being accepted? Bob
Simultaneous if you can. No reason not to start the clock ticking. You can easily stop the unlawful detainer process once they perform... and if they don't perform you haven't lost any time. Sean
This is the worst comment I have seen from this guy called Sean. The bottom line is that tenants really do not have to leave a property, especially if it's in a 'just cause' situation because lenders aren't selling houses anyway. They just sit vacant for no reason. Or the lender gets a realty company to resell the house for some price to another investor for the same price that the original lender refused to knock the underwater house down to to make the mortgage manageable for the former homeowner. I say no to 'cash for keys' unless it is at least $50,000 which is what it costs the lender to file and process an unlawful detainer against a rightful tenant! Innocent Tenant
Like it or not, that's the reality. Tenants that take as whacky a position as you suggest above get physically removed from the house by the sheriff. I've filed nearly 100 unlawful detainers and rarely have spent more than $1500 - and at the end I've received a judgement against the tenant for rent from the day of foreclosure leaving it a net cash win for me every time. But I'd rather work with folks and flip the house faster. So there is ZERO question that cash-for-keys is the clear, and ONLY, win-win for both investor and tenant. Sean
Innocent Tenant misses the point. The law provides that the holdover occupant can be evicted by way of an unlawful detainer action because the possession of the premises is just that ... unlawful. The occupant really does have to leave the property, by sheriff's escort if necessary. Our law says so. If the occupant is offered what could be considered a gift of cash to cooperate in leaving the premise instead of being forced to vacate through proper legal means, that seems to be a good thing for the occupant. That cash can assist the the occupant in relocating to a legitimate place of residence and it is a practice that should be encouraged. Mark
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Sean, These properties sit vacant for months after the tenants are kicked out. The prolonged vacancy results in blight, further driving down neighborhood property values. The mass eviction of tenants after foreclosure makes absolutely no sense. You didn't answer my question: are you informing tenants of their rights under federal law while you are trying to evict them prematurely? And yes, there is something illegal about misleading tenants into believing that these cash for keys deals are their only option, which is usually how it is presented. It's called an unfair business practice here in California, and in some cases, fraud. As I said, those who do it are playing with fire. You're dead wrong on deposits. I suggest you research the issue. You make it sound as if tenants are thrilled to take money and move on. Do you really think most tenants would move if given the choice? Eviction is extremely hard on tenants. Most want nothing more than to stay put and keep paying rent, but you and your colleagues don't give them that option. I can't believe you really wrote "Walk a mile in an investors shoes before you cast aspersions." Are you seriously looking for sympathy for people that voluntarily choose to invest in occupied properties and evict innocent tenants?

Answered by Dean


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Dean, as to you one of your points: although a bank might let a property sit, investors don't. No, they want to either immediately collect rent or rehab and resell as quickly as possible. I agree that it seems fair to inform a tenant of their rights. But just to keep things in perspective, a tenant MUST move, either sooner or later if theirs a new owner that needs to move the property... an offer (not a requirement) to move earlier for cash seems like a win win. Bob
Dean - Yes, I seriously think auction investors are under appreciated - and they are also under represented in Sacramento - unlike tenants who are getting a lot of help from organizations like yours - TenantsTogether. Lets be clear, no investor purchased homes sit vacant for months as you contend. The average resale time for an investor is just over 150 days (we know we track every single one). Investors take these properties, clean them up and get them resold to folks that can actually afford them. And they are doing it on thinner and thinner margins as the competition in this business is tough. No other group is doing more to help with cleaning up the foreclosure problem than auction investors. Period. Too many renters think that they should just be able to stay free, using the foreclosure as an excuse. And having personally evicted many tenants, I can tell you that many haven't paid rent in months using that excuse. There's a legal term for that too... unjust enrichment. I have researched deposits, and I'm comfortable with the statements I've made, though I make it quite clear that I'm not an attorney, and these are my opinions not legal advice. The downside of being a renter is dealing with the reality that from time to time you will have to move. Its part of the deal and renters that don't like that should buy. Every renter in property that is foreclosed on will have to move at the end of their lease - hopefully you aren't suggesting that just because the property was foreclosed on they should be entitled to stay forever. While notice periods have also been extended recently, the only reason that tenants don't face eviction immediately is this new federal law that has set aside LONG STANDING laws, that every lender relied on when they made their loans, that subsequent leases are subordinate to their loans, and therefore wiped out at foreclosure. And the ONLY thing this law does is allow those folks to stay until the end of their leases in certain circumstances (read it above). Nothing in it makes buyers responsible for deposits on a lease that has been otherwise wiped out with the sole acception of the right to stay until end of term at their current rent (assuming it is fair market). As for your claim of unfair business practices I've repeatedly made it clear that auction investors should not lie during the cash-4-keys negotiation. Telling someone "are their only option" would be a lie, clearly contrary to my advice, and were your words not mine. Sean
To both Dean and Sean, I've investigated the security deposit issue in California, and the law is not crystal clear. Here is the opinion of a California attorney. http://stevebeede.com/2010/03/security-deposits-after-foreclosure-california/ tom
Tom - Thanks for sharing that attorney's opinion. I've been in front of judges dozens of times successfully seeking a judgement for past due rents after evicting holdover occupants (tenants whose lease was wiped out be foreclosure). Not once has a judge granted the tenant a credit for their security deposit - and I don't see that anything in PFTA changes that. Sean
As a disabled 50-year-old female whose husband died a year ago, and as a human being who is being harassed by some soft-spoken Stepford Wife who, yes, HAS threatened eviction only yesterday (and she was banging on my door again today and LEFT a freaking INDEX CARD with the words "Cash for keys, call Carolyn" & a phone number written on it), I find your attitude disgusting. She shouldn't have written that down and left because now I've done some research & know my rights. Also, I stumbled upon this site, and now you've reaffirmed for me that banks and realtors are nothing more than scum-sucking bottom feeders who take complete advantage of other people's woes. Thanks for letting me know what I'm up against. You're what's wrong with this country. Wendy
And I am still paying rent even though the previous owner fled and hadn't made payments for months. Wendy
HI Wendy, I know that you must be completely frustrated and I do understand the emotional toll it takes when the home that you are living in goes through a foreclosure. The person reaching out to you is likely an agent that has been hired by the bank to make contact with the occupants. As a tenant you are entitled to the 90 days under the PTFA. Keep in mind that this person assigned by the bank does not know if you are a renter or the former owner. They do not know if you have a lease that will need to be honored or if you are a squatter living in the property. I can assure you that ignoring them and refusing to talk to them does not help you in any way. Her note was simply to let you know that the lender may be willing to pay you an amount to help you with the move. I recently had a relative that has been renting a house for 15 years go through this same scenario. She felt very much the same way that you feel about the agent that contacted her. I encouraged her to talk to the agent and explain that she was current on the rent and also took care of her disabled brother. After the agent took this info back to the new owner (happened to be Fannie Mae) they were able to negotiate a one year lease with the option to extend for another year and they reduced the monthly rent payment. I am not saying that this will happen in your case I am simply pointing out that you need to talk to them to see if there are any other options. Although I can certainly attest to the fact that there are good agents and bad agents I can assure you that none of them feel good about having to evict an occupant after a foreclosure. They are people too and many of them have suffered personally from the housing crisis. Michelle
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HI Janet, The District Attorneys office has an elder abuse division. If a something illegal has been done then they would be the place to go to seek assistance for this elderly gentleman. I am gathering that he is not at the property most of the time and it sounds like you are living at the property. This sounds like a very complicated issue and I am not certain that there has been a crime committed here. We wish you the best of luck.

Answered by Michelle


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Hi I have a question as a tenant in a foreclosed home in California. The house sold at auction last week. A representative for the bank came to my home today verifying that I was the renter and that a cash for keys offer could be made by the bank. I do not have a current lease. I was under the impression that I had 90 days before eviction started but the rep. told me it was only 60 days. I lost my job 6 months ago & am having a really hard time finding a rental with unemployment as my source of income. I'd love cash for keys, but I'm more concerned about not being able to find a place to move in time. Do I have 60 or 90 days? Any help/ advice is greatly appreciated!!

Answered by Jessica


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It is definitely 90 days notice before they can start eviction. That said they have no obligation to give you cash-4-keys and they can ask for you to pay rent to them. If you don't pay rent they can win a legal judgement against you for the rent as part of the eviction. Sean
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HI! I am on a property that has a bonifide lease until 2014. The DEUTCHE BANK FORECLOSED ON THE PROPERTY! THE LEASEE IS A VETERAN 80 with Health prostrate issues and has been At the VA ALOT AND ASK ME TO MANAGE THE property FOR HIM. He had a long lease because he put about $100,000 Of imProvements on the property for horse rescue and dogs To have a good living environment. THE BANK TRIED TO EVICT HIM AND BECAUSE OF THE LEASE BEING DONE PRIOR TO THE DEFAULT HE WAS ABLE TO STAY TILL TERM OF LEASE 2O14. The court awarded to him in 2010. He wanted to possibly buy the property from the bank And offered A letter to them to buy or pay lease but did not hear from them He tried to send the lease a Amount and it was not accepted in 2010 with a return Receipt! Since then the did another unlawful detainer And he had to get an attorney to help him And give $2000 retainer to stop them as was already Awarded to him from the courts since 2010. THE ATTORNEY HAD THE BANK REFUND THE FILING FEES AND THE RETAINER AMOUNT OF $2300. But the attorney took his fee of $2000 And also SAID HE OWED $4300 total but they would Forgive $1300 and only keep $1000 more totaling $3000 . HE NEVER RECEIVED ANY RETAINER AGREEMENT AND STATEMENT ON ANY COST! AND ATTORNEY CLOSED THE CASE. But the bank said that he had. Not. Negotiated the PURCHASE IN GOOD FAITH (as he has been concerned about health) And they said he had to pay the back lease a Amount of $17,600 by 8-1-12. He does not . know what to do and from the 2nd UD THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FILED HE HAS TAKEN A SETBACK IN HIS HEALTH FROM THE STRESS AND WANTS TO MAKE SURE HE KEEPS THE ANIMALS SECURE AND SAFE! HE SAID IF I COULD HELP HIM TO FIND AN INVESTOR THAT WOULD COME ALONG SIDE OF HIM AND INVEST WITH HIM AND SECURE THE 15 acres that is FULLY DEVELOPED AND IS SET UP AND KEPT UP WELL HE WANTED TO OFFER THE BANK from $65,000 to $100,000. AS THE PROPERTY SHOWS VALUE APPROXIMATELY $80,000. And last sold for $390,000 And in A VERY GOOD SCENIC RURAL AREA FOR RESALE OR DEVELOPMENT! POSSIBLE INCREASE IN VALUE AND BOTH PARTIES COULD DIVIDE THE PROFIT AND HE WOULD STILL MAINTAIN IT UNTIL THAT POINT! HE ASKED ME TO ASK YOU WHAT HE CAN DO UNTIL HE CAN GET IT SECURED TO STAY ON PROPERTY? And keep HIS ANIMALS SAFE. OR WHAT TO EXPECT FROM THE. BANK AS FAR AS A NOTICE ETC. HE ASKED WHAT PTFA AND NOD AND NOS STOOD FOR AND MEANT? THANK U BLESSINGS JANET

Answered by Janet


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We have been renting a home for 2 years on a lease contract for 4 years. We have just received pounding on our door from 2 guys stating they have been trying to contact us for week because they bought the property on a foreclosure sale.. First, we never received anything or any calls from these people. When I told them we were renters not the owners, there faces dropped. The one guy told me he had the right to enter the home now but he was not going to. Then he proceeded to flash me a paper saying they are the new owners but he would not let me hold it to read. Then he proceeded to ask who we were and if we could show him our lease agreement. The owners of the home kept telling us they were in the process of a loan modification and were working with a lawyer. We have been paying rent. Now, my husband and I are not uneducated people and knew we had some rights. We knew these people were in the wrong. I gave them our phone number to contact us. They left. My husband contacted the one guy and we found out this was a property managment company. We told him we were going to contact legal advice from an attorney because they were trying to have us move out in 3 days. The guy changed his attitude and stated we were right in that we did not have to move in 3 days that they are told to try and see if they could scare us out. My husband told him we were contacting a lawyer for legal advice on what to do and what information we are suppose to share with them. First, we werent sure or had adequate proof who these people were. . We have a 4 year lease contract we signed 2 years ago. We saw how these people to try and scare us out of our homes illegally and scare the families living in these homes. This is wrong and we fully understand they purchased a property and we do not have any intentions to try and get over them, but there intentions is "who cares of those in the homes, all they see is dollar signs. Do you agree with us contacting legal advice?

Answered by Gina


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HI Gina, The Protecting Tenants in Foreclosure Act provides a tenant with a mandatory 90 day notice and in the case of a lease the new owner must honor the terms of the lease provided it is a valid market rate lease agreement. It is a bit odd that an owner would sign a 4 year lease which would lead me to believe that you will likely need to reach out to an attorney unless the new owners are willing to honor this lease agreement. Michelle
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We have purchased 9 homes at the auction in the past 13 months. 3 had tenants. It is my opinion, that the tenants are real victims in the foreclosure mess. They have been lied to by their deadbeat landlords who all continued to collect rent and not pay the mortgage, taxes or HOA fees. But we need them to leave and the sooner the better. I am not there to be their legal counsel. But we do treat them with respect and fairly. In the real world, the tenants know they have to leave and the offer of cash for keys has worked to their advantage everytime (for us). As Sean says, it is a negotiation. They don't need the law if they get what they need. As Mic said, "you can't always get what you want, but if try, sometimes, you get what you need". Be fair and respectful to these poor soles who are the victims. They will be grateful and happy.

Answered by Richard


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Awesome advice Richard, thanks for contributing. Sean
I guess it was inevitable, but we have purchased an auction house with a difficult possession issue. It is difficult because the occupants have lied about just about everything. At first, they told us they rented the house and they and several other people were living there. So, we opened negotiations for cash for keys. They said they thought they could stay longer than we were offering. We told them that this was correct, but if they did not leave early they would not get any cash from us and would have to pay us rent. We gave them several days to think about and made a couple of more visits worth no results. It was obvious the woman was anxious and was stalling. The story and number of people living seemed to change with every conversation. Finally, we found out that the owners also lived there and that the rest of the people were relatives. The family is Mexican and they are sticking together. We found the owners at their place of business and met with them a couple of more times. The meetings were contentious at 1st, but we eventually sat down to try to understand what they needed and tell them what we wanted and see if there was middle ground. They claimed they were working on a loan mod and did not believe the foreclosure really happened. We showed them the Trustee’s Deed and they seemed to understand it. A couple of days later we met again, this time they told us they did not want our money, just more time to stay. Based on the series of lies and outright rejection of the cash for keys offers, we decided it was time to get the attorney working on a formal eviction. Although the owners lived there and we could have tried a 3 day eviction, he advised against it because of the fluid nature of the other occupants. It is clear that most of the people living there are relatives. When we asked for a rental agreement, they reported there was none. So, we are proceeding with a 90 day eviction. So here is an example of abuse of the tenant eviction regs. Unfortunately for the owners, we will get a judgment and it will get recorded. They have a small business and I am sure they need their credit. As I understand it, the judgment will be on their record for 10 years. So, yes, CFK is best for everyone. A basic requirement for a successful negotiation is enough honesty and willingness to allow the parties to understand the needs of the parties. Once it was clear they were not willing to negotiate in good faith, we really had no choice but to enforce our rights. As you can see, once these so called tenants exercise their assumed right to stay, we will exercise our right to have the Sherriff hall them out and add another mark to their credit. Richard
yes...but $500 & a day to move for people who have little funiture...aka...dirt poor...does not sound fair. If it was me, I'd say heck no, stay w/ help from any free (since I'm dirt poor right) legal advice, pursue my right to deposit, sublet, possibly see what structures were for sale in the house (washer & dryer, staurcase, etc...get the picture) unless he wants to began at 2,000 & at least 30 days notice. Have a nice day... Lynne
As a renter, selling fixtures would be illegal... theft or at least "conversion". We've actually called the police in one of these cases and had the folks arrested. You get what you pay for with "free legal advice". Threats to commit illegal acts or abuse our court system are not the best bet for renters in this position. That said, they should know their rights (ability to stay till end of lease, etc.), and they should certainly negotiate the best cash for keys deals they can. Sean
I'm not advising anyone to steal...but once the home is forclosed I think some things are up for grabs. If you had someone arrested...i doubt if it stuck ( unless it were clearly & painfully obvious...everyone knows most banks initiated cash for keys to prevent property damage from a disgruntled person) & it was probally less painful than 500 bucks (a room for rent or cot in CA) & move in a few days. I just saw a property for rent that was a beautiful house & apparently someone came back (best guess former occupant/owner) & tore out piping, damage refinished basement, I was just about to submit to live there & the poor Agent was in shock. They even did the nasty in toilets. No arrest yet only suspicion. Sounds like to me you just never encountered the 'right' sort of canidates yet...or you're not mentioning it. I say treat people reasonably fair...(common sense) & less bite later. Lynne
p.s. Only an extremely 'unwise' person would not listen to free or reduced legal advice & instead take the word of someone who's best interest is for them not to. lol...Legal Aide is non-profit & some of the best bona fide attorneys who are usually idealistic & this stuff (going after wealthy s special interest) is sort of the dream job for some...not to mention all the Pro-Bono attorneys they refer poor or working class tenants to. Lynne
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Here's a new one folks. One West Bank has been harassing the other occupant of my duplex (single mom, home during the day) telling her that she will lose her deposit because our landlord might go to foreclosure and it would be best to move out soon. The rep contacted me once on a weekend when I was outside watering the grass, was very friendly (I'm 6'4" 285 lbs.) but gave me the same spiel. I looked up my rights first, before even attempting to confront my landlord about the situation. Found out that I was covered to a certain extent by CA and the new Fed tenant laws, maybe I should prep to move, but since I'm a great tenant and a duplex with two small one-bed apartments isn't likely to be bought by someone seeking to live in one half, was too worried about being forced to move. Then I heard about Cash for Keys and figured out what was going on. The owner is trying to sell the house to avoid going into foreclosure, so the bank thinks either way it is best for us tenants to leave. They are trying to avoid paying Cash for Keys and after talking to a lawyer, they might be hearing from me on a suit for "Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. I understand the side of the landlords well, several friend are/or have been landlords and have been screwed often by terrible tenants. In this case it is not my landlord, but their bank that is in the wrong, my neighbor is freaked out over the situation.

Answered by Tom


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Hi Tom, It is doubtful that the bank representative if working to "help" the landlord. That said, I have recently heard of some banks contacting the tenants prior to the foreclosure to gather information on the tenants. The banks have also done this to the owners. In one case the lender even had the owner sign a paper that she agreed to move on a certain date prior to the trustee sale. I am constantly surprised by the new tactics that are being introduced. You are right in that the lender (or investor that purchases the property at trustee sale) must give you 90 days notice under the PTFA. This does not start until after the trustee sale. In many cases the lender/investor will offer a cash for keys incentive to encourage you to move prior to the 90 days. Keep in mind that no one is required to offer a cash for keys incentive so there is no guarantee that you will be offered any money to move. You may be right and the new owner may be interested in renting to you. This is one of those situations where everything may work out and you can stay as a tenant or you may get sick of dealing with this and decide to move on. Michelle
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Do you have to give your ss# and sign a W-9 if you accept Cash for Keys? Not sure if you've answered this question.

Answered by cindy


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The only problem with that is that the tenant can get rid of the dog temporarily, and claim that he has gotten rid of it for good. I already told him at the lease renewal three months ago that if he kept the pit bull, I would end the lease. I think its better to make the eviction based upon the tenant creating "waste." (as you know property damage), which I have already documented by taking pictures. That way he can't use the issue of supposedly getting rid of the dog as an excuse to not get evicted. In my experience, tenants who say they have pets will almost always try to sneak them back in later in the lease.

Answered by cm


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How about a tenant with an unauthorized dog (pit bull) that is both a liability and damaging the premises? The tenant was already told to get rid of it and hasn't. what is better, cash for keys or eviction?

Answered by cm


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Sounds like you may have grounds for eviction. I'd serve them a notice to remove the dog or quit - a variation of the pay or quit notice that typically starts the eviction process. You'll need to do it anyway in order to evict and it may help start a conversation leading either to them simply moving out, removing the dog, or negotiating some sort of agreement (cash-4-keys). If they don't then you can go ahead with the eviction. Personally I always do cash-4-keys and eviction concurrently. It is easy to cancel the eviction if they move per the cash-4-keys agreement, so there is no reason to delay doing it in parallel. Sean
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NEED TO KNOW HOW TO STOP AN UNLAWFUL DETAINER THAT WAS NOT SERVED PROPERLY. PLEASE ADVISE AND IF I NEED TO DO A FRENSIC AUDIT AS WAS PREDATORY LENDING? WILL IT STOP THE BANK UNTIL IT IS FINISHED? THANK U BLESSINGS JANET

Answered by JANET


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DO I DO A MOTION TO SQUASH OR A DEMURRER AS THE BANK SENT IN MAIL A PACKAGE THAT HAD AN UNLAWFUL DETAINER IN IT WITH AN EXHIBIT THAT THE SERVER POSTED THE NOTICE ON THE FENCE! BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY NOTICE POSTED. THE 80 yr old that holds the lease is A VETERAN AND IS HAVING HEALTH ISSUES AND HAS BEEN IN AND OUT OF.VETERANS HOSPITAL AND CANNOT TRAVEL AT THIS TIME FOR COURT. HE HAS ASKED ME TO HELP HIM WITH THE PROPERTY HOW DO I ADDRESS THIS AND DO I RESPOND TO THE MAILING WITHOUT THE POSTING THAT THEY CLAIMED THEY DID? THE BANK DID THIS IN 2010 and LOST AS HE HAS A LEASE TILL 2014 with the OBAMA LAW. THEY CAME BACK AND TRIED TO DO ANOTHER UNLAWFUL DETAINER IN MARCH 2012. HAD TO GET A LAWYER AND COST $2000 plus fees To stop. DUESCHE. BANK WAS FOUND WRONGLY NOW JUST 9-18-12 RECEIVED NEW MAILING OF ANOTHER UNLAWFUL DETAINER! That WAS NOT SERVED PROPERLY BUT NEED NOW ANOTHER LAWYER AND DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS AND DO NOT KNOW IF THERE IS ANY FREE LAWYERS THAT MIGHT HANDLE FOR NONPROFIT OR A LAWYER THAT WOULD DO ON A CONTINGENCY AND HANDLE IT FOR INTENTIONAL INFLECTION OF EMOTIONAL STRESS THE LAST TIME THE SHERIFF PUT A WRIT ON MAIL BOX AND SAID HAD 5 TO MOVE AND THAT IS WHAT THE LAWYER STOPPED. HE HAS RESCUE OF HORSES AND DOGS ON PROPERTY THE LAWYER FOR THE BANK HAS CAUSED UNDUE STRESS FOR THIS ELDERLY GENTLEMAN. WHAT CAN HE DO TO STOP THIS? THANK U BLESSINGS

Answered by JANET


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HI Janet, You can certainly reach out to a FREE HUD approved counselor that can possibly refer you to a legal aid service in your area. You can find a list of counselors by going to www.MakingHomeAffordable.gov. Michelle
I seriously doubt you will get a judge to stop the unlawful detainer for improper notice. You claim it was never posted but most eviction services are smart enough to know to take a picture of the notice posted on the property... which is all that is required. Doesn't matter if you saw it or not. If he has a fair market lease that meets the requirements of the Protecting Tenants in Foreclosure Act, then all he needs to do is answer the unlawful detainer lawsuit showing that he has a valid lease. Worked before, should work again. If he doesn't have the funds for the attorney, he can answer the lawsuit himself (use the answer from the prior suit as a template). Make sure he shows up in court as well. Given that this is the second time he might also find a lawyer (ideally his previous lawyer), whose willing to handle it at no cost to him, as I'd think the attorney should be able to seek reimbursement from the plaintiff. Sean
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Would you let the original owners of the foreclosed property, become renters of the house if they expressed a strong interest not to move and were willing to sign a lease with deposit etc? Or would you just kick them out to avoid problems in the long run?

Answered by chris brown


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If you are planning to rent it anyway, I don't see any real downside. I'd probably only do it if they were taking care of the place, had stable income, and were reasonable to deal with, in addition to the lease and deposit you mentioned. If you plan to flip, better just to get it over with now. Sean
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My home was sold in a short sale. 30 days ago the broker came to my home and verbally told me I had 60 days to move. Everyday after that visit I had inspections and the new owners coming by to measure the place and what ever excuses they could come up with.. I mentioned on one of the visits I dont have anything in writing. (This was Sept3rd.) I finally recieved a 30 day written notice on Sept 10. The new owners e-mail me everyday asking me if I found a place yet. They said they have to be out of their home on 27th of sept. Another e-mail was to inform me of how they were expecting a new baby. (I feel like they are working me) Now an hour ago the broker just knocked at my door with an offer of 1,500. CASH FOR KEYS. I showed him the 30 day and how it was not properly written.(False info) I know I have 90 days. He said lets not worry about that because cash for keys will be a new agreement. He offered me 1,500. and be out on 30th of this month. 10 DAYS? Oh and the new owners told me the loan is on hold until I move out. So help me please, I understand my position is ... 10 days ago I was servered with a false 30day notice. And today offered1,500. to move 10 days shy of 30 days. And legally I still have not properly been servered 90 days notice. Do they need to serve me another 90 or is a 60day equal to it? I've lived here for almost three years. My rent is 1,600 its a brand new condo. I'm the first tenant to reside here. I'm a single mom of three small children . The broker said the bank or agent had no money, so they pulled together 1,500. I have no idea who THEY are? This all sounds wrong to me and I feel bullied. Thank you for your time. I feel very DUMB. I'm just a uninformed tenant that has no idea whats really going on.

Answered by chris


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HI Chris, Although this is a short sale for purposes of the tenant it is a traditional sale and does not fall under the Protecting Tenants in Foreclosure Act. It sounds like you are on a month to month agreement which means the owner can give you written notice based on the terms of your rental agreement. The risk of being on a month to month agreement for a tenant is that the owner can give you notice to vacate at any time. If you do not move then they would be forced to evict you and in most cases this takes a couple of months. If you do not vacate at the end of the notice date or if you do not pay the rent then they can legally evict you from the property. It is obvious that the new owners want to move into the property and would prefer to offer you money to help you move as opposed to evicting you. The risk you take in waiting for them to evict you from the property is that you would then have an Unlawful Detainer (eviction) filed against you and it may make it much harder to rent a property in the future. I know that when I was working in property management an unlawful detainer was grounds for immediate denial of a rental application. The bottom line is that the home has been sold (or is being sold) and you are going to have to move. If you fight this and force them to evict you it may buy you more time but they will likely get a judgement for the past due rent. Although I realize that moving is costly and difficult it sounds like you are going to have to move eventually and maybe working with the the new owner would be a better bet than waiting to be thrown out. Michelle
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Thank you for your time. I am paid up on my rent. I have no intention on not paying or staying here for long. I just want to know what my legal rights are. I am recieving section 8 that helps with my rent. I thought new owners have to give 90 days when its going through escrow? And I have only been served a thirty day notice. on the notice it says housing tenants get 90 days. They ignored that and checked off 30 day notice. If I am allowed 90 days then 1,500. is not enough. I will need to get a motel for us and storage until I find proper housing to pass section 8 inspection. Its been 10 days from notice. They can not evict me until my 90 days are up, right? And I still feel like I have not properly been served? I have no problem giving cash for keys but, I need more cash to move out in 10 days. I need help from moving co. I cant do it alone.. Thanks again. So my big question is. where do I stand legally? I have great rental reports and plan on keeping it!

Answered by chris


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Thank you for your time. I am paid up on my rent. I have no intention on not paying or staying here for long. I just want to know what my legal rights are. I am recieving section 8 that helps with my rent. I thought new owners have to give 90 days when its going through escrow? And I have only been served a thirty day notice. on the notice it says housing tenants get 90 days. They ignored that and checked off 30 day notice. If I am allowed 90 days then 1,500. is not enough. I will need to get a motel for us and storage until I find proper housing to pass section 8 inspection. Its been 10 days from notice. They can not evict me until my 90 days are up, right? And I still feel like I have not properly been served? I have no problem giving cash for keys but, I need more cash to move out in 10 days. I need help from moving co. I cant do it alone.. Thanks again. So my big question is. where do I stand legally? I have great rental reports and plan on keeping it!

Answered by chris


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Thank you for your time. I am paid up on my rent. I have no intention on not paying or staying here for long. I just want to know what my legal rights are. I am recieving section 8 that helps with my rent. I thought new owners have to give 90 days when its going through escrow? And I have only been served a thirty day notice. on the notice it says housing tenants get 90 days. They ignored that and checked off 30 day notice. If I am allowed 90 days then 1,500. is not enough. I will need to get a motel for us and storage until I find proper housing to pass section 8 inspection. Its been 10 days from notice. They can not evict me until my 90 days are up, right? And I still feel like I have not properly been served? I have no problem giving cash for keys but, I need more cash to move out in 10 days. I need help from moving co. I cant do it alone.. Thanks again. So my big question is. where do I stand legally? I have great rental reports and plan on keeping it!

Answered by chris


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HI Chirs, The Protecting Tenants in Foreclosure Act which provides for the 90 day notice when a tenant is living in a property that has been foreclosed. In your case this is not a foreclosure and the landlord is not obligated to give you a 90 day notice. They are only required to give you the appropriate notice as outlined in your lease agreement. This is typically only 30 or 60 days. They just have to give you written notice and they do not need to physically serve you. Sending it in the mail would be sufficient. It sounds like they have given you the 30 days notice and because they really want the house quickly they are trying to incentive you with cash in exchange for you moving early. If 10 days if not reasonable you could certainly negotiate with them. Michelle
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Chris - you should consider contacting a Legal Aid society in your jurisdiction or you can call your local bar association and ask for a Lawyer Referral Service to meet with UD lawyer to advise you. Those attorneys donate their time, usually a half hour. The fee you pay is usually a small administrative fee to the bar association for administering the referral. Lastly, the court's website should have explanations for you about understanding the process of eviction. They will not tell you what you want to hear, but they should be able to understand what basis the Notice is claiming and whether is adequate. Arm yourself with knowledge, but make a plan because you have your children to think of if you need to relocate quickly.

Answered by Julia M. Wei, Esq.


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Question, I was given a U/D by the Bank/Lender/Attorney because I did not submit my CFK in on time. Then I asked the realtor if I got it in could they throw out the U/D. Is that something that is done often? Thanks

Answered by Matt


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Yes. It's up to them, but not uncommon. Sean
Hi Matt, They can certainly agree to cancel the UD but that would mean that they are now trusting you to actually honor the terms of the agreement and be out on time. If you could not get the agreement to them on time they may not be willing to cancel the action until you actually move. The other problem that you will encounter from dragging your feet on the cash for keys agreement is that most property management companies will run a credit check and check for UD's. Even if the UD was canceled it will still show on your record. You will want to be prepared to explain this situation to any future landlords. Michelle
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I am a tenant who only had a verbal agreement with the previous owners of a house that went into foreclosure. The bank (B of A) took it over on 1/6 of this year. My problem isn't getting out of the house - all my stuff is already in storage. My problem is the former owners, who left a bunch of their own stuff in the yard, storage shed, and attic of the property. My cash for keys agreement says that I must have the entire property cleared, or I don't get the cash for keys, and I do get an eviction on my personal record. The former owners say they will move their stuff out, but I am not seeing that happening... they are still very emotional about losing the house, and act as if they still have rights to it, even though they weren't living there at the time of foreclosure. I was. They also seem to think that if they go back in and pretend to be in residence, the bank will offer them a cash for keys agreement, though I already have one. They are impeding me from clearing their junk off the property. I would pay to have their stuff hauled away, for sure. Do the former owners actually have any rights in this? They do still have a key, and go in when they want to. They have taken the stove out of the house, and told me they plan to take the clawfoot tub, too. As much as I could use the money, I really don't want the eviction on my record. Any advice?

Answered by Morgan


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Have you explained the situation to your contact at the bank (like the real estate agent)? Also, when you talk about your cash-4-key agreement, is this something you signed, and did you agree to get the former owners stuff out already? Regardless, I really don't think you have the legal right to remove the prior owners belongings. The bank likely does, but only so long as they comply with applicable laws. As such, I'd go back to the bank and ask that they honor the cash for keys if you do what you legally can. Perhaps they'd be willing to negotiate a slightly lower amount. That would be smarter for them then going through an eviction - in the end of which they'd still have to deal with the prior owners belongings anyway as no judge is going to make you clean up the landlords mess. Finally, I really don't see how the bank could win an unlawful detainer lawsuit (aka eviction) against you if you simply vacate the property. Even if they actually filed the suit, which I doubt they would, you could answer stating that you are already out. I don't know what exactly you signed, but its really hard for me to see any judge ruling against you in this situation... and again, I doubt it would get that far. That said, I'm not an attorney, and you may want to have one review the cash-4-keys agreement before you make a final decision. Sean
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If you are in CA, you can be evicted in 3 days, so you might want to think about that. 2 years or more without paying the mortgage, taxes and insurance, ounds like a pretty run, why test your luck?

Answered by Richard


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While a 3 day notice is required before filing for eviction (an unlawful detainer action), I don't think I've seen the whole process completed to actual eviction in less than 45 days. Sean
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Actually in reference to Seans comment: ). Nothing in it makes buyers responsible for deposits on a lease that has been otherwise wiped out with the sole acception of the right to stay until end of term at their current rent (assuming it is fair market)." it must depend on the State. Here in Maryland, the new owner incl Bank in a forclosure must pay the deposit to the renter! I just spoke with an Legal Aide Landlord & Tenant Specialist & they confirmed even giving me State Code to research. Any Tenant can contact thier local Legal Aide (they charge a sliding scale fee & are non-profit orginaztion & also refer) for specifics in thier State.

Answered by Lynne


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Yes the original question was regarding CA, so my comments were based on CA law. Eviction laws certainly vary by state. Sean
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p.s. in this economy...everyone incl former wealth tycoons have something on thier 'record'...lol Just pay the 'Mexicans" a offer worth the hassle of temp renting eleswhere, storage fees, & new deposit (maybe twice what was offered originally?) I mean common sense...if its not worth your while...why bother to move...wait 90 days & heck even a Tenant Holding Over may buy 30-60 more in some states. But I'm not reccomending this...if the offer is fair or if one can move easily on what' s offered.

Answered by Lynne


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If I were making a decision whether to agree to a cash for keys offer, I have consider the following: 1. The security afforded by state and local laws. If those don't allow expulsion after foreclosure or provide a longer notice period, you should be offered more money, as you have a greater awareness in staying in your home. It may be more suitable to move at the end of the school year, for instance, and if your 90 days would get you to July, you might rather not move at the end of April. Yes, it is all right to say that moving at the convenience of the proprietor is not convenient for you. 2. The amount of your deposit. If the cash for keys offer is less than your deposit, it means you are giving up the variation. Do you want to do that? If the lender organizes the cash for keys agreement, it will most likely state that the agreement settles all declares you have on the lender, which means that you give up your right to sue the lender for return of your security deposit. 3. The price of moving. Include in this protection/pet/other deposits, the cost of movers, or the truck and pizza for your friends, utility deposits, shifting your address everywhere, the time you have to impression work to deal with finding a new home etc. Regards, Clawfoot Tub

Answered by racks jackson


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Racks - On 2, note that you are not giving up your right to sue the former owner for your deposit if you accept cash-4-keys. Its easy to file an action in small claims court, and judges rarely take kindliy to landlords who fail to return a deposit. In some states, like CA, the tenant is also entitled to a pretty significant penalty. 1 and 3 are definitely good negotiation points, but know that there is no law that requires the landlord to pay moving costs utility deposits or any of those other items you mention in 3 if your lease and notice periods are over, so there is a limit to how much that argument will buy you. Sean
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This is a concept of homeowners whose home is for gone into foreclosure and this is voluntary and no hard and any fast rules on mortgages where landowners must follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=xOVoJ-Kmwrw

Answered by Risa Wood
from FL


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Well, I personally spoke with an attorney who's specializes in this kind of law here in my state (Maryland)...and they were clear according to MD. code on this matter (even sharing the law so that I could pass the specific code onto the attorney for the bank whom I suspect already knew). Here in Maryland...the new owner (incl Bank) is responsible for returning the Security Deposit.

Answered by Lynne


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Hi Lynne, Thanks so much for doing the research. That is great to know about Michigan. The original question had to do with CA. Each state is very different when it comes to not only the foreclosure laws but the eviction laws as well. You have pointed out a very important fact and that is to always check the laws in your state. Michelle
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I am buying a foreclosed home from a bank through auction.com auction. At the close of escrow - next week - I will get a quit claim deed from the bank/seller. The property is still occupied by "someone" (presumably previous owner or a relative). What is the best action plan for me? Should I try to arrange C4K myself? Or post 3 day notice first? Or hire an attorney to handle the eviction? I have bought several REO properties before but this is the first time which will involve eviction and I am nervous (to say the least)!

Answered by Sandy


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You should try to negotiate cash for keys (C4K) AND post the appropriate notice (if they're a renter a 3 day won't work - try to find out when you go to negotiate C4K). As for whether to do itself or use a professional, I'd recommend using a professional if this is your first time. You can usually find an eviction service that works with an attorney (cheaper than using attorney for everything). Sean
Thanks Sean. If nobody opens the door when I go there - what are my choices? I will of course put the notice but in whose name? And for filing UD - how do I know how many adults live there? And their names? I can probably find out the previous owner's name - should I just assume that is the one who is living there? Sandy
Eviction service can walk you though it. If they can't find the folks, they will get an order to post from the court. More info on the unlawful detainer process here: http://www.scscourt.org/self_help/civil/ud/ud_file_and_serve.shtml#others, though note it appears to be out of date as the Protecting Tenants at Foreclosure Act requires tenants get a 90 day notice. Sean
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It sounds like they didn't serve you w. a Notice to Quit. I forget what current laws are - am sure someone else will reply. They have to give you at least 90 days, as I recall. The Deed wouldn't have recorded within the few days after the sale that they contacted you. I'd tell this overly aggressive real estate person to cool it. And, whatever you work out - get it in writing!! There have been many instances where people move out and get nada after making an oral agreement. What normally is done is you get the agreement in writing and on the agreed upon day/hour, they hand you a check and you sign a statement that you have vacated and have left no personal possessions behind.

Answered by miket


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Sean, 1) I am thinking about bidding on a couple of properties at auctions; How is ownership of the appliances established? . I think the owners are living there now. 2) Also, how can I determine in advance of the sale who is ,in fact, living in the house. 3) On the property I am interested in, the loan that is being foreclosed on isn’t shown on ForeclosureRadar (though later assignments of it are, so it may be an oversight), I am planning to go to the county to see if I can find it there, tomorrow. Is it true that it must be recorded for it to be legitimate?

Answered by Steven Corcoran


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We are bonafide tenants, who had no relationship to the property owners. Our lease doesn't expire until Dec 1. We have Rottweilers, so it can be very difficult to find a place where we may have our pets. The bank is B of A. We countered with a more than double offer, because we allowed for EVERY possibility, such as, having to stay in a motel for a couple of weeks, boarding of our pets (more expensive than our motel), storing our belongings until we find a suitable home, new deposits, application fees, earnings lost while packing, searching & moving, etc. We also expected them to come back somewhere in the middle...which of course, we could live with. We just didn't want to feel like we got short-changed in the process. Moving is very time consuming & expensive. I know that they (and others) probably think we're looking for a windfall. Well, we feel we are entitled to some consideration because of all the hassle this will cause in our lives. Not to mention the ACTUAL costs of moving. We do, after all, have a valid lease, that the federal government says we can live out. Leaving 7-8 months early should afford us financial coverage during our move. I'm just surprised that they were on us so quickly and called incessantly, that is UNTIL we provided our lease and a counter-offer. Now, we haven't heard a thing for a week and it feels OMINOUS. I guess it's just me - paranoid - is my middle name.

Answered by Pia


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Fascinating site. Any counsel would be greatly appreciated. I'm a tenant. I found out a NOD was filed on our rental home on November 3rd. A little background, we have a 1 year lease that started August 1, 2011. We made it quite clear we are long term renters (we were in our last rental over 5 years). My husband met with the landlord to get the keys, at that time the landlord told him to look out for the mail as they were "refinancing" the house. He informed me several days later (after we moved!). I have been watching the mail very closely and 3 letters came in 2 days that made me very suspicious. A google search later and my suspicions were affirmed NOD filed. After a day of thinking about it, I did several things. research on the internet, calls to realtor friends, and lastly called the landlord. Asked her point blank, she claimed she didn't know. Is this even possible??? I expressed my concerns and reminded her again we are long term tenants. She indicated that they were working with a lawyer on a loan mod. What are the odds of getting a non owner occupied loan mod in Los Angeles??? Told me they have "no intention" of losing the house. Still not trusting her, someone pulled the title for me., she told me she was only 2 payments behind and current on her taxes. According to title the loan balance is 355k. she is 32k in arrears and clearly owes more than 2 months back payment!! Part of the lease agreement is I deposit rent money directly into her account. I'm clear the laws state I must continue to pay her, clearly she is not paying the bank, I know this is going to take months, We don't want to move, we can't afford to move again. I don;t know how to handle the situation and it;'s total BS, she doesn't use our rent money to cover the mortgage. She also stated to me she was behind before we moved in. Was she even legally allowed to enact a new lease? What true recourse do we have?

Answered by Cheryl


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I don't think you would have any recourse until you have some sort of damage. I'm not aware of any law that prevents a landowner from leasing their property based on what they are, or are not, doing with their lenders. On the up side, under the current laws you are clearly entitled to stay in the property through the end of your lease so long as you make the payments. You are right to be concerned about getting your deposit back, and you might consider withholding an equal amount of rent at the end of the lease (though technically this would likely put you in default on the lease, in practice that shouldn't be a problem beyond incurring late fees - read your lease to see what penalties are for late payments). You should also plan to move at the end of the lease. They may get lucky and get a loan mod, but your are right that it is unlikely. Some stick it out to maintain their credit, but your landlord is already in default so clearly that's not likely. I'm sure it doesn't seem fair that they could profit off of you in this way, but at the end of the day you are getting to live in the property, and for that you do owe rent... whether the landlord is a dirtbag or not. Sean
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Realtor showed up yesterday after our former home had been taken back by the bank (BofA) with offer of 15 days and $3500. Since this has been going on (the foreclosure) for almost 2 years, we are not prepared to move in 15 days. We have been advised to offer $5000., we will move in 60 days, and we will not take anything we had purchased for the home with us (fixtures, equipment, pumps), show the house by appointment and leave over 3000 sq ft home in brush clean condiditon. What do you think?

Answered by nanlay


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