What is TCS Foreclosures' track record? Are they legit or another rip-off scheme?
Answered by H Brown
Wed Aug 13th 2008 at 11:14am
I have been associated with TCS for the last 3 years. They have been a key to all of my success in the industry. They are definately legit. They are extremely helpful. Once you are in their program it seems like there is nothing they wont do to help you succeed. I feel like I am part of an organization that wants to see me do as well as they are. So, I have nothing to say but good things about TCS and I am happy to be with them.
Answered by Amber
Fri Sep 12th 2008 at 11:57am
Whatever you do, do not work for them. Working for TCS foreclosures is the worst job on the planet.
Answered by Andrew W.
Thu Oct 16th 2008 at 10:48pm
I have 10 properties on my books that I've got discounted. I need to unload them. I was thinking of using TCS, but I don't want to pay the thousands of dallars because I don't know if they'll perform. If anyone is affiliated with them and would like to help me filter them through to their "Realty Track" investors please contact me.
Answered by Andrew Macia
Thu Nov 6th 2008 at 9:39am
Hi Andrew, I'm a TCS affiliate, and would happily analyze your properties and funnel them through TCS. They are great people, and if the deal makes sence, I'm sure we can work something out.
If you are interested, email me: email@example.com
Answered by Dana
Sat Nov 15th 2008 at 3:08pm
Interested in knowing whether or not TCS is a legit business or simply a boiler room with telemarketing sales folks doing the hard sell on their "short sales training." Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Answered by Fl-MI Buyer
Mon Jan 19th 2009 at 10:06am
have done a lot of research on TCS there are a few negatives but I
think it is more over from people think they will make 30k a month. I
am new to this an have been studying it for over 6 months now an am
just getting ready to buy/turn my 2 house. I have been talking to TCS
for over 2 weeks now an reading as much before I invest. Reality is
once you know what you are doing an have the money behind you turning
2-3 deals a month you may make around 10k.
Answered by water softeners
Thu Jan 29th 2009 at 7:33am
Has anyone ACTUALLY taken the Short Sale course??? or is currently working the program???
Answered by Bill D
Mon Feb 2nd 2009 at 12:39pm
I have been with TCS Foreclosures since last year. I have been with 5 other mentor companies. And no one has ever given me more support then TCS Forclosures. They are my greatest tool in the investment business.
Answered by Randy
Mon Feb 16th 2009 at 6:20am
Has anyone tried using TCS in Las Vegas with any success?
Answered by Tim Brown
Fri Mar 6th 2009 at 2:08pm
TCS- If you join RealtyTrac you will be called by a TCS telemarketer on an automatic dialer.
They have been instructed to offer the TCS "franchise Like opportunity" for $15,000. Then you will listen to Andrew on a Teleconference call who will offer the same for $10,000, then (currently) $8,000.
You will be asked to make your decision immedialtely or lose the "discount'.
Nobody on the sales floor can tell you that they know anyone who is having success. Those selling you are also being sold the same product.
If they buy- they no longer can work the phone.
They make every effort to keep internet searches possitive- burying anything negative
Trinity Consuling Service (TCS) is selling this today- maybe selling something else tommorow. They are salesmen. That's it.
Answered by JoeThePlumber
Fri Mar 6th 2009 at 5:36pm
During the California Gold Rush-the only people that made money were the ones selling picks shovels.
The same people that sold subprime mortgages are now doing this.
TCS is in Irvine CA. and It's no coincidence that Irvine was center of the subprime mortgage industry.
Answered by Anonymous
Fri Mar 6th 2009 at 6:06pm
If you can buy houses for 70% off their CURRENT value, less costs to cure defects, The system works.
Before paying for a access to a "network" to unload such items-(which I understand TCS Forclosures is doing) 1st you should try to find them on your own.
I foresee Banks will likely start hanging on to FC's until things turn around. This will reduce the pobability of negotiating a Short Sale with them also.
With nothing to list-you will not make money this way. Who buys something for 10k without knowing exactly what it is? You have to give the money up before you can find out what TCS can do?
Answered by Anonymous
Fri Mar 6th 2009 at 6:30pm
anyone want to collaborate in the Boston area?
Answered by metrowest
Wed Mar 11th 2009 at 9:40am
Is joining TCS as a bird dog a good way to jump start one's real estate investing business? I think once you get the leads, reputation, and hard money network, one could take off on their own?
I understand there are a lot of less expensive ways to learn the method, but TCS is basically selling access to their "investor network"..which may take awhile on one's own to achieve.
What happens when the market goes up? are banks going to be less likely to accept the low ball offers?
I've negotiated a significant discount to join TCS, but still sceptical.
Any insider help would be appreciated.
Answered by CJ
Sat Mar 14th 2009 at 12:15pm
I took their $7500 class before the October stock market crash. After you join, you'll hear TCS use the changing environment as an excuse to upsell you. "What worked a year ago doesn't work now. You have to keep learning."
I know a guy who made a million last year in short sales (not through TCS and not without prior foreclosure experience) who can't move his inventory now b/c investors don't know what the value of property is now. The TCS investor network was the big draw for me. But your properties will matter almost exclusively to the TCS investors that are in your state. Don't think that b/c you're in a relatively stable market that out-of-towners will take an interest. Also, with the way it's marketed to the investor pool, don't expect investors to see all the work and best arguments you put together to show why the property is a good buy. (So why not just market it locally to investors on your own? Search me.) Furthermore, very few network investors are cash investors. A few investors will show interest, then disappear -- likely unable to get financing.
If bird-dogging is so lucrative, why do they have dozens of workers cold-calling RealtyTrac's registered members -- commission-only? In order of quality of life, TCS investors are better off than "researchers" (bird dogs) are better off than salesmen. TCS protects its investors. At the BiggerPockets real estate site, it's INVESTORS that chime in as to how great TCS is. Furthermore, TCS tries to upsell bird dogs on PropStream, which bird dogs find gives outdated leads and is mostly a tool for investors to find neighborhoods that have a growing market. If TCS is so great for bird dogs, why do they need to keep replenishing their ranks with such a huge sales force? And if you think you won't have competition, think again. The rate of people entering the short sale and loan mod industry is very high. The barrier of entry is very low and groups like TCS are luring people in with promises of easy money. Furthermore, out-of-work realtors and mortgage brokers are better positioned than most to do this, and still struggle to make a single short sale. So naturally your competition will be huge. And don't be surprised if you get fed up with attempting short sales and switch over (buy into) TCS's loan mod program -- and get nowhere with that too (nobody will do a loan mod with TCS for $3500 when they can get it done for $2k with anyone listing on Craigslist or found on Google). And if the TCS salesman tells you 40% of students complete their first short sale deal before the 8-week course is done, don't believe it. It takes a month (and 500 letters; more, if you're using outdated RealtyTrac data) to find a homeowner who will sign a contract, then a month to get all the paperwork needed from them. Then there's the review period with the gatekeepers of the investor network, then a week of marketing to the small group of investors who paid $10k (TCS makes a lot of money in up-front costs) for first-crack. Bringing investors properties that are 70% of market is no guarantee that any investor will talk to you about it. This may have worked a year ago, but not now. It may work again in a year, once investors are confident the bottom has been hit. But I couldn't get rid of a short sale that was half its purchase price a year before. I read yesterday of one home that sold for $1M in early '06 in Fla. that is now a short sale for $175k. With these decreases, have fun trying to sell your short sale contract to an investor who wants to resell.
And good luck using the TCS approach of working with realtors to get away from having to do letters. I got a half-hour lecture from a realtor why they won't funnel short sales to bird dogs who assign contracts, from protection of their 6% commission from being chopped down to 4% during lender negotiations to protecting their license from not serving their client to realtor unwillingness to work with a contract that says "assigns" to requirement of multiple thousand-dollar deposits. If I'd know that reasonable response rates of letters is 2% and reasonable conversion rates of respondants is 5% (not my numbers; got these from a real estate marketer with much short sale experience; I'm finding it's true), I wouldn't have gotten into this.
If you still want to do this, there are other training courses that do this for much less (b/c they don't promise access to an investor network). They're sold on eBay for far more affordable cost. I heard of one short sale course in Florida for $500. One guy where I live gives seminars in the NE and on the west coast -- but he doesn't tell anyone that, since otherwise people will realize how hard even the seminar leaders have to work to make money at this. These lecturers are everywhere, so don't think there's a rush to join TCS's webinars.
And if you miss the start of one class, no worries: they're starting a new one every 4 weeks. That should tell you something about the rate at which people drop out of their program, and how much competition you'll have, and how much the teachers would prefer to bring in more students than to do the bird dogging themselves. One week they say they need you in your state to penetrate that market b/c they can't do it on their own from a distance. The next week, they're trying to sell you a $2k software packet that you'll need to penetrate out-of-state markets. So "researchers" need to expand their radius beyond their state, and can do it, but they can't?... The contradictions just makes your head explode.
Oh, and if you can get someone to answer your call or message on the fifth try, consider yourself lucky. I don't know if they're understaffed, always in meetings, or what, but TCS's support is really weak. I have to second what Cibola said. What he's saying means, don't be surprised if you don't break even in 6 months. Read more here about a drinking problem and low morale at the company: http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/2/217338.htm
One argument they use to lure in bird dogs is, If we didn't come through, the teleconferences would be pandimonium. Well, short sales take a long time to do, and nodoby's going to say boo b/c they're still waiting to find out whether it works or not. Six months in, bird doggers get up the nerve to criticize during the training calls. But even the training calls are self-selecting: if you think it's a wash, how diligent will you be about calling in to an hour-long training session that you think is a waste of time?
Some of you may think, it just takes one short sale to break even. Well, yeah, but meanwhile you spend hundreds on postages sending out thousands of letters to get one willing homeowner for a short sale the lender may or may not agree to, even after months. Then you have to find a buyer of your contract. I know one guy who secured 30 short sale contracts in his first year (back when there was much less competition, and he was working the Hispanic market), but didn't do one single short sale, b/c he was weak on the investor side. Many people aren't able to break even b/c after months of paying for postage, and incorporating costs, and for being drawn into upselling, they've run out of money. I've come across three such examples within a mile of where I live, so I know it's not uncommon.
(I know one person who's dropped $40k on education, marketing, deposits, etc. and has yet to secure a short sale, never mind bring in an investor to close the deal. She's unusually bad at business decisions though. I'm just saying that there are plenty of educators, marketers, etc. who will give you opporutnities to pay them money, if you have the money to cough up.)
Answered by Anonymous
Tue Mar 31st 2009 at 9:59pm
Thank you CJ.
Finally someone who has a straight answer. You don't need to spend $10,000 on a course to learn this stuff. Throw a rock and you'll find a foreclosure in your neighborhood. Take a real estate attorney out to lunch. Short Sales and loan modifications will be falling by the way side soon, we all just have to adapt. We just have to understand that there is no easy way to make money in real estate. Never was, Never will be.
Answered by Andrew Macia
Tue Mar 31st 2009 at 11:09pm
Hail from South Carolina!
Robin Castin will not leave me alone! Why do they think, just because I sell the heck out of SC, I will have time to do this too! Short Sales Suck!!!! Way Too Much Time on Hold Waiting for Another Assest Manager. Have any of you heard of Ameraco? Cheap! I do not think they are service minded, books sent out and you are in the Investor River. Please All Investors Email Me I will get Licensed IN your State, I am Praying For An Investor River!!!! Check out FINDITANDFUNDIT>COM Robin and I have talked, just about everyday soooo.... Let know what is the cheapest I can get TCS for! You Know ...Just In Case I Win the Lottery.-----Diane
Answered by SC Real Estate Marketing Specialist
Mon Apr 6th 2009 at 6:43pm
That was one hell of a post!
Maybe you need a cocktail after that....maybe a few.
There is money to be made in RE right now. This deal didn't work out after a couple of months and the guy is riping everything he can think of...
Grab that cocktail and figure it out...once again, there are ways to make money in this RE market.
Answered by Anonymous
Tue Apr 7th 2009 at 8:02pm
Thanks to Anonymous for his detailed experiences dealing with TCS. Robin Castin has been hounding me lately too. I brushed them off last year as an investor, but thought I might consider "researching". Obviously many many obstacles to achieving success this way...Also subscribed to TCS data for about 6 months. Not once did anyone ever call me back on an enquiry I made on listed foreclsures. I really question how current the data is...
Answered by Anonymous
Fri Apr 10th 2009 at 1:57pm
Hello, I had signed up with TCS foreclosures on March 2008. I invested $7800.00, but I never invested time with the program. I am looking for a partner who can work with me. I will provide the capital, and my partner will do the work. Are there any interested parties out there? Please contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Answered by JoeMoney
Mon Apr 13th 2009 at 12:53am
TCS teaches you how to become what they call a "researcher". As a researcher you'll go out and find distressed homeowners in foreclosure or pre-foreclosure. You'll convince the homeowner that you're going to help them get out of this mess by purchasing their property. You'll then proceed to negotiate with their bank for a short pay off of their loan. Once you have negotiated a discount of about 30% percent you will submit the information to TCS so that they can shop the contract around in their "investor pool". Once an investor is interested you'll make money by marking up the negotiated price a few percentage points and more then likely get paid out through escrow.
This is not a complicated strategy, but it's just one. If you're looking to become an investor and have the money, then you probably don't want to learn how to be a researcher. You probably want to learn about how hard money or private money works, how a joint venture works, how tenants in common work...etc. I'm putting this information out here because I have done extensive research on many real estate investing programs, I have perchased many and I am a real estate investor, and yes I have brokered contracts before, and would gladly do it again. This is not a real estate investing program, it's a program on how to aquire properties and assign the contrcat. It's not a bad program, but it might not be for everyone.
Answered by Andrew Macia
Mon Apr 20th 2009 at 2:07pm
tcs looks bed and smales bed
dont give them your monney
Answered by Anonymous
Wed Apr 22nd 2009 at 12:13am
I have read all the pros and cons about tcs and i just got a call from them today. I'm suppose to listen to a conference call. I was told that for 2K i could start right away making money. If it is that easy then why i am i paying you 2k that i could put down on my own home. I really want to get into short sales. Could some one please explain to me how it works and what i need to do to get started? You can contact me at email@example.com
Thank you for your time.
Answered by BBgirl
Thu May 7th 2009 at 2:27pm
TCS- THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DISCRIBE HOW TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF AND MIS REPRESENTED BY TCS OTHER THAN TO SAY I WOULD NEVER GO NEAR THIS "COMPANY", ANDREW WARDIEN SHOULD BE ARRESTED AS WELL AS PATRIC GROM, I AM CURRENTLY IN CONTACT WITH THE IRVINE DISTRICT ATTORNEY"S OFFICE AND WOULD NOTHING BETTER THAN TO SEE ALL OF THIER SCAMS STOPPED AND RE-FUNDS BE MADE----I WON"T HOLD MY BREATH ON THAT ONE---TO SEE THEM BEHIND BARS!!!!!!
Answered by Anonymous
Mon May 18th 2009 at 2:38pm
I worked there for one month-. I watched them go through every laid off car sales person and loan officer in So Cal. Every warm lead I dug up got snatched up by someone else and I never got a dime for all those hours of pushing that "next call" button.
After watching another of Andrew's mid day pep talk and that piece of white spit stretching up and down on the corner of his mouth- followed by that tight jean wearing jock Patrick blabering away
the Koolaid wore off and I quit.
I don't know what I was selling- but was trained and re trained & told not to say something I was told to say the day before.
All I can say is there is a sucker born every minute and they will be in biz a long time Or until they get sued for not paying minimum wage or for Wire fraud- or ?
Answered by RGI
Thu Jun 11th 2009 at 4:50pm
This company makes all kinds of promisess and they don't deliver. As a matter of fact, they outright lied to me. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the positive comments posted on this site are by TCS themselves. I don't believe they have very many investors and they do tell you to look for your own.
A very strong "buyer beware" from someone who fell for their pitch and who has been an entrepreneur, and involved with real estate, all of my life. There are so many other programs out there, just do some research.
Consider this ... I have nothing to gain from posting this - I've already lost my money.
Answered by Anonymous
Sat Jun 13th 2009 at 12:01pm
If you ever signed up with RealtyTrac you will get a sales call from TCS because they are partners. I fell for their telephone pitch on how to make big money in REOs and Short Sales. They charged me $7500. What I found out after spending over a $1000 in postage and letters, that your entire success depends on distressed homeowners responding to your marketing efforts. I got less than 1% return rate on direct mail and those who did respond thought I was a scam artist because the TCS way is to ask for money upfront from homeowners which is exactly what the media is telling people not to do. I filed a complaint with the BBB. My initial gut check was correct.... "If it's too good to be true then it probably isn't."
Answered by golfguy650
Wed Jun 17th 2009 at 10:19am
Hello my name is Patrick Grom, Director of Training with TCS
Foreclosures. I am making this post in response to some of the
comments on this forum about TCS and myself.
We have been in business over 8 years. I ask anybody that has a question or a problem about TCS feel free to contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org or call my office.
As for the response to some of the posts, that I don't think deserve
much attention, but I will defend myself. First for the former
employee that says that kool aid wore off and my Tight Jeans, First we
have a professional enviroment that means slacks and ties, and I almost
always I wear a suit. I am sorry that the job did not work for you,
and wish you the best of luck. Sometimes people are looking for jobs
for a reason.
2nd and more important the poster golfguy650 and when you click his
name he says his name is Rick Smith. First Rick Smith I do not have a
client with the name Rick Smith or Richard Smith. So either not using
your real name or not really a client of TCS. I would go with the
second since your posts are not close to our business. We do not do
anything really with REOs unless my client is looking to purchase the
property themselves. You don't need much training with REOs. Secondly
we never charge or ask a homeowner for money just like one of my newer
clients posted after that post. In fact all my sample letters say
"Free consultation, or "We will never charge you a dime for our
services". Obviously you never used my sample letters (which sounds
like you are not a client again). If you happen to be a client once
again feel free to contact me. Also what else have you done for lead
generation, like referrals.
How did the 10 or more responses you got from your mailing go.
Then there are other posts made by annonymous posters, which is
always strange. We have no legal matters against TCS, the District
Attorney is not looking into our business. Not sure why people would
make up such claims but in this business nothing really suprises me.
If the annonymous posters would like to use there real names and site
specific problems (I don't see any posts that state a specific problem
they had with TCS or myself).
If you would like proof I would be more than happy to send anybody
acceptance letters from banks to show not only do I teach short sales
but I do them also.
You can learn this business on your own or you can get help on
learning this business. I respect everybody that posts concearns or
legitimate questions and I would be more than happy to address them
personally. I have nothing to hide, in fact I encourage you to see our
office and meet me personally.
I hope everybody has great success in this business.
Answered by coach
Tue Jun 23rd 2009 at 5:54pm